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July 20, 2018

Comments

Wayneborean


BennyDover

Why do you think they arrested Maria Buttina? It wasn’t just because she’s sexy, and Republicans lose their minds over sexy women.

Wayneborean


RickO

To paraphrase that immortal sage Bugs Bunny, you are a Gull-I-Bull.

Tomi T Ahonen

Hi gang

Will start responses, as usual, will do in chronological order..

Tomi Ahonen :-)

Tomi T Ahonen

Hi Winter

Great thoughts and comments.

First the insanity idea. Very good 'solution' to solving Trump. So yeah, he's delusional narcissist and a dimwit, and may or may not be clinically insane, but enough evidence is out there to get a quick consensus that Trump is unfit to be President. And it would remove that part of the problem with relatively little damage to the US system overall. It could be a behind-the-scenes compromise worked out with 'sane' Republicans and Democrats, together with the eventual findings of the Mueller investigation. That would assume that the Republicans in those meetings are not compromised by Putin money and corruption. By current view and behavior, I think the (current level of) rot in the GOP goes too far, and I doubt such a 'clean' solution could be done. BUT I like it, Winter, had not thought of it, and most def, it becomes one of the plausible end-games to the problem (of Trump himself).

As you said, that would then lead to Pence, and arguably a worse problem for America and democracy.

From 'my jamming' angle to your idea - Trump unfit/insanity - and as you also said, many in Trump admin would go to prison yes, then if there is clear evidence that Pence was part of the Putin money grab, then he'd fall in that collateral damage. Then we go to the US rules of succession. If both Potus and VP are out, who becomes the next President in the Line of Succession? I believe that would be.. the Speaker of the House. Currently Paul Ryan - BUT... looks likely that for 2019 that would be Nancy Pelosi. And this could be part of the big package.

And now the quick Hollywood ending Cinderella story... Trump insane. Pence imprisoned. Pelosi named Potus 46. She picks as her VP... Hillary Clinton (gets easy confirmation in Congress due to the post-Trump post-Putin post-NRA scandal aftermath, with tons of GOP members of Congress already imprisoned). Pelosi rules for a week, resigns, hands White House to Potus 47 and Hillary 'finally' gets her WH, while she would even be robbed of the title of 'first woman' Potus haha... her string of bad luck would continue but she'd get there, and turn out to be exactly the medicine the nation needs after the two years of Trump... But yeah... that is the Hollywood ending. Lets stick to your arguments, Winter..

Now, are there problems with my theory, haha yes of course, and we'll explore how much of this theory ends up being true. It is so far I think the only 'wholistic' theory that covers Trump, Putin, GOP and NRA which explains EACH of their roles in a consistent way. But as we know, it is only a theory so far. We'll see how well it holds water.

As to bad premise. Yeah. I agree. That is why I was so reluctant to go to this route. But as the great detectives say, when all impossible causes are eliminated, the remaining one, however unlikely, must the the answer... :-)

We know, (and painfully remember) how much everybody was certain Hillary would win, during the summer and Autumn of the campaign. Only at the very last week or so (FBI Director Comey's statements etc) did the race tighten up, but even then most had Hillary with a solid but small lead into election day. The near-consensus view in the USA, and abroad, was that Trump would be crushed in the general election - even more so, as he repeatedly got himself into ever more trouble (sex tapes, horrible debate performances, etc). And if so - if that WAS the belief - Trump 'will lose anyway' then this idea of a 'grand conspiracy' to take Putin money - because it is 'free money' and you'll never be caught - AND because Trump can't win, they would 'never need to worry about repaying Putin for any promises made 'if' Trump was to be elected' haha.

When we place the thinking into that mindset. If you take the Putin money and Trump wins, then Putin demands all sorts of concessions and Republicans would be obligated to follow through (considering how much Putin also then had dirt on all of the GOP through hacking their systems as well as Democrats'). But essentially all Republican leaders 'knew' that Trump cannot win and even whispered that many times in that run-up to Election Day. They were convinced, it can't happen. And THEN the free Putin money looks like candy they just had to take haha... Nobody would ever investigate Trump's failed campaign finances, and if the NRA was the middle-man, they could hide behind the campaign finance regulations that shielded the NRA

(ok more coming)

Tomi Ahonen :-)

Tomi T Ahonen

(Continuing with Winter)

So that point you make, that Putin's primary aim was to de-legitimize Hillary - I agree that it must have been part of Putin's grand plan. And no doubt, the one Putin also thought the more likely outcome. BUT Putin sent his hacker army to attack the US election and Putin pumped dozens of millions, possibly $100 million into 2016 election cycle. It was BY FAR the biggest and most expensive 'spy operation' to 'topple' any election ever attempted by any nation against another nation. I do believe Putin knew very well what they were doing - and that Putin very likely KNEW they had the ability to influence the election so much, that he could tip the election result into his preferred direction. But I agree with you Winter, that Putin had Hillary covered too, if she had won, Putin would have run a big smear campaign against her to damage her as much as possible, with 'sore loser Trump' as Putin's biggest spokesperson.

Can you imagine how much a whining crybaby Trump would have been in 2017 if he had lost to Hillary? We've seen how much John McCain bitched about Obama. We've seen how much Trump attacked Obama before Trump was even running. We've seen how ungraceful a winner Trump has been attacking both Obama and Hillary relentlessly since Trump won in 2016. And that Trump was so eager to use any propaganda that came from the Kremlin to smear Hillary. Yeah, he'd be on Fox every day bitching about Hillary and how she's the worst Potus ever. In any case, we'd have had the most disrespectful period in US political history, except that Trump would never have been 'silenced' had he lost, and been tossed to comment from Fox News (and his own new TV network he was setting up). In that way, perhaps, having Trump be Potus for 2 years and then removed, may also be better for political discourse, to illustrate how harmful such dialogue is, and teach the lesson for the next generation of politicians, lets not be crude and destructive, like Trump was....

(one can hope. In reality probably the bar has now been re-set and in future this is the BASE level of insults and what is acceptable)

I totally agree with the 'revolt was inevitable' part. It is ironic it would be a 'Republican' who led a 'workers revolt' haha, but yeah, a populist against the evil outside world that is cruel and crushing us... yeah, same pitch as Poland, Hungary, etc.

LOL I love the last part, yeah, a split of GOP to join DEMs, only a small part of the 'moderate' edge of Republicans, that would be enough to do it. A more 'practical' solution would be a split out of GOP to IND status, Independent but as a group, and to stand against the Trumpistas, but 'not joining Democrats either' haha. A total wishy-washy politician's way out, something I could see people like John McCain and Lindsey Graham etc doing, and could see some like Lisa Murkowski (Alaska Sen) and Susan Collins (Maine Sen) joining. Then they could caucus as a semi-party, but join the DEMS initially in all issues relating to Putin mess, including impeachment of Trump and the expulsion of criminal GOP Putin-tainted politicians... plus any hearings that were to follow. And then, thinking 'strategically' from DEM side, it would be in Nancy Pelosi & Chuck Schumer's best interest, to secretly build this revolution, even if they never formally joined DEMs, but to wipe out the power of GOP, and thus they could give such Senators some plumb jobs chairing some committees. And it would look quite nicely 'post-partisan' if some major committees were chaired by IND Senators, haha, rather than DEM..

Thanks Winter, great thoughts in the comment..

Tomi Ahonen :-)

Tomi T Ahonen

Hi Wayne

Great comments!! So from the top. Knowing Trump was in Putin pocket when he fired Comey. Me too. That was such a clear signal. But it was part of the 'honeymoon period' I felt I had to give Potus, he might have some clever plan - or even if he didn't, he might have hired some clever 'outsider' people who could have maybe done things that 'worked'. I had to give Trump enough time to illustrate what he can do, once he is in office. Obviously he can do only damage haha..

So Peale the 'positive thinking' guy? I remember him and his books. So Trump is one of his flock haha.. Ok, explains some of Trump's delusions and why he keeps returning to that totally destroyed concept, that if Trump says something will happen, it WILL happen (Mexico paying for wall, North Korea denuclearizing, Trump will win in trade wars, etc). LOL I love it that now Trump is even saying out loud, that his supporters must stop believing their own eyes and ears, and just take Trump's words as the truth. This is where Trump's delusions lead us to the Twilight Zone haha.

LOL Orrin Hatch, yeah. Not my cup of tea, but I'd certainly be willing to believe Orrin is more a patriot than a Trumpist, and compared to Trump, Pence and Ryan in line of succession, Hatch is probably first one that is 'clean' and would do a decent job as interim President in the painful aftermath of clean-up of Putin-Trump mess. I could see Hatch taking a strict non-partisan angle to that task.

LOL If Republicans were sane, they'd rush to get Orrin Hatch in now, rather than wait for after the election, when Nancy Pelosi would jump Hatch in the line of succession... I could even imagine that in some back-rooms there are negotiations of when and how Trump is to be removed, with this exact issue at stake. If I was a Democrat in that room, I'd say 2016 was tainted election and after 2 years of GOP ransacking the country, they cannot be given the next 2 years of Potus, whoever it was, and the least thing is to give the DEMs the Presidency, as more voted for Hillary than Trump anyway, and thus, no deal now, wait until mid-terms and then give the White House to Pelosi haha... That is how I'd be advising the Democrats in that negotiation but yeah, if I was a 'sane' Republican, I'd push for the switch now, which would at least give the GOP Orrin as the next President... :-)

On Mueller waiting. I agree in principle. This is an incredible crime of selling the USA to Putin, and a massive conspiracy likely covering several hundred people (badly enough to land in prison). And in such crimes, law enforcement would typically not wait at all, just rush in the moment the last needed item of evidence is secured... FBI vans on the White House lawn, and perp walks for Trump and Pence and gang. Boy would I LOVE to see that...

And back in the Spring, when the Stormy Daniels story and Michael Cohen tape recordings were revealed, I expected this to be the outcome. And for it to happen this summer. And I am still 100% convinced that the Trump & Cohen idiot Mafia moron mob family crime syndicate will yield enough crimes to put Trump & Cohen behind bars for life - all meticulously documented by Trump's monkey-boy attorney Cohen and tape recording not just Cohen's own crimes but as we just now this week found out, also tape recording Trump. I said all this in April haha. And the crimes that we'll find out, will stretch a dozen years from before Trump was Potus, and involving small time thug stuff, that will be enough to pile on decades and decades of prison time - in New York State local crimes (that cannot be pardoned by Trump). Why is that case not rushing forward? I am certain the behind-the-scenes deal between Mueller and New York is that NY waits with Cohen, until Mueller takes down Trump for Russia. It is not 'right' for Trump to get to play his defense against Cohen, while his HUGE crime was selling the USA to Putin.

Now, might Mueller drive up to the White House and put Trump in handcuffs? Yes, that may happen. And it MAY happen within days, if for example Manafort flips and suddenly spills enough of the beans that Mueller knows happened, but Mueller needed a witness for. I personally believe that Mueller has total proof of the money traffic and doesn't 'need' Manafort. But I also personally believe, that Manafort would know all the intimate details of HOW the Putin connection was set into motion and who all is involved, that Manafort would be the star witness to the whole show (while Mueller also has the bank records to prove it all). And Manafort is not alone. It is possible for example that one of Trump's kids might rat out dad, once the dimwits figure out, this means life in prison without parole, for all of them, and dad has just driven the van over the cliff and there is only one parachute inside the van.

I'd hate for any of the Hitler Jugend kids to be given a break, but if say Ivanka or Don Jr were to flip, then Trump would be toast instantly. And if Mueller has most of the pieces to crime, but was missing one 'critical' item of evidence, then any one star witness flipping at this stage, could be that last item, which then triggers the visit to the White House and the ... perp walk!!!

Now, with all that said, I do think politically it would be explosive of course to have the President and most of his Administration and a big bunch of Congress Republicans put behind bars, just before an election. Would look a lot like a coup d'etat, and of course the right wing nutters would yell and scream about the 'deep state'. There could well be riots.

(But this 'deep state' conspiracy theory was part of Trump's insurance - thanks to Putin's propaganda machine - together with 'fake news' - which is part of the insurance plan, to prevent Trump loyalists from discovering the truth)

I would love for Mueller to take Trump before the election. Gosh, every day he is in office he just does more damage. I do believe, however, that Mueller will wait until after the election, and delivers his findings to the new Congress. I would HOPE that the crimes are so enormous and obvious, that Trump is taken out straight into prison from the White House, but I expect this goes through the impeachment process instead (during early Spring 2019).

(more responses coming)

Tomi Ahonen :-)

RickO

You deleted me for a 4th time. You leftists cannot handle the truth. All in an echo-chamber together in a big circle with your mates having a mass debate.

Per "wertigon" Ekström

RickO:

Sorry, your "truth" has so many holes in it, it's just not plausible.

Whenever I encounter a statement, I do two basic sanity checks. The first is, given the information I have, does this statement seem reasonable?

Second, if the statement is not reasonable, what foundations does the statement challenge, and is it possible that my own foundations are wrong?

In this way, I can iteratively increase my knowledge.

Challenge your own foundations. Always. Always assume faulty information from your side first. That makes it so much easier to pick out the bullshit, though it is not bullet-proof. :)

FIGJAM

How about some mobile-related blog instead of this utter insanity of the same caliber of your previous "Hillary is going to win in a landslide and Trump is going to commit suicide"?

On these matters *you do not listen* (quite literally: you ban, censor, delete anyone who doesn't agree with you) so *you learn nothing* and you are bound to once again totally embarass yourself and get deservingly mocked and humiliated.

Signed: the man who was RIGHT in his analysis and predictions on the 2016 American Presidential Election and told all of you circle jerking lunatics in his censored post at the beginning of the election night.

FIGJAM

"Challenge your own foundations. Always. Always assume faulty information from your side first."

Pretty good advice for the circle jerk going on here.

Wayneborean


FIGJAM and RickO are hilarious. Keep the. Around Tomi, we need them for the comedy. Raving Trumpists are so much fun!

As to Mueller’s timetable:

I’m assuming that Mueller isn’t going to arrest Trump. There are a variety of arguments as to whether of not a sitting president can be indicted. Mueller won’t want to get involved with this. Instead he’d file a report with Rosenstein l who would then share it with Congress. They’d leave Congress with the job of taking action. Congress being Congress the report would leak of course. When he files the report I have no idea. I suspect that the investigation is ongoing.

While Mueller won’t charge Trump directly because of the political angle, he can, and will start laying charges against more of the other people involved. I have no idea who, but I’m sure Mueller has a plan of who will be indicted. Roger Stone looks good for it.

Mueller is a rule of law type of guy and a patriot. I suspect that he intends to bring down everyone involved as quickly as he can, but only after he is sure that he has them dead to rights. Part of his aim will be to get more of them to enter plea deals. Having someone roll over on Ivanka et al would be perfect from his point of view. Then he can pressure them to roll over on Big Boss Trump.

Think of it as a game of four dimensional chess, with Trump and his gang thinking in two dimensions.

Meantime, popcorn sales hit an epic high...

Per "wertigon" Ekström

@Wayne:

Although, to be fair they do have a point.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing twice and expect a different result.

The numbers do not quite support it as far as I know, but it could be there is a hidden "Trump factor" or "GOP factor" that means these midterm elections will also bring massive victories to the GOP.

Given how much of an idiot Trump has turned out to be, I reckon a lot of GOP voters will swing over, too.

Wayneborean


Per,

It is possible. But not probable.

1) Trump’s trade war fallout will continue to get worse unless he kills the tariffs
2) Mueller has a lot of information we don’t have, and if there was nothing to investigate he would have filed his report and shut the investigation down.
3) The Religious Right has become so toxic that they are driving a variety of demographics which used to be evenly split between parties to the Democrats.
4) Trump keeps acting like a third world dictator.
5) Trump keeps saying the stupidest things.

Now it is possible that the Russians own the voting systems, but if they don’t we will see a swing to the Democrats. I have no idea how much of a swing, we will see that on Election Day.

I’m one of the demographics that would have at one time voted Republican if I lived in the USA. I’ve meet a number of what we’re big name Republican politicians through my job, and was favorably impressed.

But the Religious Right is anathema to folks like me. I’m a bisexual man, in a polyamorous relationship. A lot of the folks I know are Poly, Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, or Transgender, and the only good Religious Right leader is a dead Religious Right leader. If they are dead they can’t hurt my friends.

FIGJAM

@Wayneborean
"I’m a bisexual man, in a polyamorous relationship. A lot of the folks I know are Poly, Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, or Transgender, and the only good Religious Right leader is a dead Religious Right leader. If they are dead they can’t hurt my friends."

LMAO! Talk about the comedic value you mentioned earlier...
So you want the "Religious Right" literally dead and yet you strongly support the party that wants to import wholesale 3rd world folks who want YOU, your friends and your freak lifestyles dead (ever cared to check how your kind fares in the 3rd world??)... ROTFLMAO!
Explain how that works to me please, I appreciate comedy just as much as you do ;)

Wayneborean


FIGJAM,

I see you didn’t pass reading comprehension.

Wayneborean


Take a look at this, those of us less than impressed with Trump will love the cartoon.

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/turbulence-on-air-force-one-as-melania-tunes-in-to-fake-news-cnn-to-donalds-irritation

FIGJAM

@Wayneborean
"I see you didn’t pass reading comprehension"

Or, in other words, you don't know what to answer.

It's a very simple question, Wayneborean, one that even someone with genuine reading comprehension problems and who prefers cartoons like the one that you just linked should be able to understand: why do you support the party which is hell bent in flooding the country with 3rd world people who think about you and your friends and who would do to you and your friends much much worse than the worst of what you called the "Religious Right"?

Let me ask again: before assuming and defending batshit crazy positions like the ones you and Tomi espouse here, have you ever cared to check how your kind fares in the 3rd world??

Feel free to answer with a cartoon if that's all you are capable of.

Per "wertigon" Ekström

@FIGJAM:

You know how I told you to challenge your own assumptions?

What you are saying right now is the old, tired and oft-repeated lie that fundamental Islamists are going to take over the west. But they do not have the means to do so and never had, and if you knew a bit of how migration actually worked instead of giving in to your irrational fears and hatred, then perhaps you would realise a far more plausible scenario is that fundamental Christians take over and create a society akin to Handmaids Tale - but with less rape, perhaps.

Wayne isn't answering your question because it is not based on valid assumptions. Simple as that. :)

@Wayne: Yeah, I agree, if there is a GOP factor it is likely to be massively offset by upset would-be Republicans. I would not discount the option entirely, however, because the cult of Fox is mighty indeed.

RickO

With the Democrats self destructing, Mueller desperately indicting Russian agents...what a joke.
TRUMP WILL ROMP IN THE MID TERM. Get ready for a sea of red across all electoral college in the US states.
Trump is milking everything to his advantage leading up to the mid term and get ready for a big dump on the Democrats coming soon.

Winter

@FIGJAM
"why do you support the party which is hell bent in flooding the country with 3rd world people who think about you and your friends and who would do to you and your friends much much worse than the worst of what you called the "Religious Right"?"

Who employed all the hispanic immigrants? And what party do they vote for? And might that not explain why the existing laws against hiring illegal immigrants are not enforced?
http://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/358892-to-tackle-illegal-immigration-go-after-the-employers

Then, back to muslims. The majority of muslims that migrate to the west are fleeing the fundamentalists that you use a a bogey man. The islamophobic right wants the same thing as the fundamental muslims: Ethnic purity. They are each other's strongest allies.

On the whole, you seem to believe the Republican propaganda on their word, about everything. You even take their words as gospel about their mortal enemies, the Democrats. To me, that indicates you have an ax to grind yourself.

Note, the current vice president of the USA does not seem to think that people like Wayne Borean have rights of protection under the law.
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/07/21/24372449/mike-pence-once-gave-cover-to-regimes-that-execute-homosexuals

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