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« Apple Quarter and Few Other Items in Smartphone Wars | Main | Advertising Global Spending: Digital Passes TV for First Time - and Mobile Alone will pass TV in just Two Years »

November 24, 2017

Comments

Abdul Muis

@GoodTimes

"So the Android has 100%(* market share of $0 apps. Pop the champagne! /s
(* not really
Ooops I did too. xD"

Quick.. Buy Aloe Vera!!! I smell something burning...
LOL

According to lots of study, the Cheat to Win / Pay to Cheat game bring **LOTS MORE** revenue than the pay in advance.

Abdul Muis

@Tomi

The question that I have is...
Why suddenly 3x??
Why we only hear the news now??

Is the rise really so sudden, or no one notice it before?

Abdul Muis

1. Free with IAP (In App Purchase) bring more revenue than pay in advance
2. Don't talk like there is no free apps in iOS.
3. I love the way you exaggerated. 3-4 ads instantly... Why not say a dozen ads instantly??? Cmon tell me which app is that?? I really love the bullshit when someone say the iOS version is better because paid apps, and the android version is bad, crowded with ads.

Jim Glue

Hi Abdul,

You are absolutely right. Free with In App Purchases is a major business model on both platforms. iOS has added subscriptions which is also helping with revenue. I imagine it's just a matter of time before Android adds subscriptions to Google's Play Store.

I agree with your question of "how'd we all of a sudden get to 3x the downloads". That does seem to be a brand new number out of the blue.

Even taken at face value....it doesn't tell us anything about how developers are doing on Android vs. iOS.

There are apps you pay for. Apps given away free but bring in advertising revenue. Apps that are free but are monetized with in app purchases (usually the first purchase option is to turn off the ads). Apps that bring in recurring subscription revenue. And the BIGGEST part that has yet to be reported on....apps that are monetized outside of the app store.

Facebook app is free. Facebook does not use either Apple's or Google's ad system. Facebook's free app is generating billions in revenue for facebook and it never appears in any of these numbers. Uber's app is free. AirBnB is Free. WeChat, Line and the like are free. All generate tremendous revenue an multi-billion dollar corporate evaluations from revenue that never appears in the app store revenue numbers.

Corporate apps bring big money to their developers...yet are distributed for free.

The reason games appear to be "the place where money is made in mobile" is because all the revenue games earn come via the app stores/ad platforms.

I would doubt that Facebook alone brings in more revenue from it's free mobile apps than all of the games combined.

Tomi T Ahonen

To all in this thread too

I just posted update to the Nokia comeback blog about Finnish operator/carrier stats about most popular smartphone model rankings for November. Looking like Nokia in November was 5th bestselling smartphone in Finland (and rising). Stats & links in the Nokia comeback blog discussion thread..

Tomi Ahonen :-)

Jim Glue

FYI - the iOS versions are often better...often...having nothing to do with ads or not. You can pay to turn off the ads, or play and deal with ads. Same with Android...or am I wrong? I think I've only bought 1 Android app.

Here's an article from Android Central (one of many Android blogs that have said the same thing about iOS being better): https://www.androidcentral.com/iphone-x

----------------------------------
I spend a lot of time these days going between phones — between phones running "stock" Android and others running stock Android, and others still running versions of Android you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy (but fewer of those every year, thankfully), and iOS.

iOS still feels like a static mess in some ways, full of stolid, uncaring icons, red badges shouting at me to clear them, and a home screen completely unwilling to work with my aesthetic sensibilities.

But it's also, like, so fast. Android could only dream of maintaining the touch responsiveness and consistent frames per second that iOS so effortlessly achieves. You may think your Galaxy or Pixel is buttery smooth, but compare it to the flawless movement of the iPhone X home gesture and you'll be quickly humbled.

Those apps, too, are still better. I want to believe, now that we're in 2017 and not 2012, that developers care as deeply about feature parity on Android, but they don't: the best indie apps still don't come to Android (although one can argue, and I'd agree in some cases, that the indie app scene is extremely vibrant on Android — just in a way that doesn't make them much money); games arrive months late, if at all; and beloved products, especially camera-based networks like Instagram and Snapchat, lack specific features or optimizations that drive me crazy.

It's 2017 and you still can't count on Android apps to be of the same quality as their iOS counterparts.

My banking app, for instance, brought Touch ID (and, thanks to transferrable APIs, Face ID) support to its iOS app two years ago; the Android version forces me to enter my password like a chump every time. My favorite writing app, Bear, has no intention of building an Android version, and my formerly favorite meal-planning app, Grocery King, hasn't updated its Android app in over two years.

Of course, given that I spent the vast majority of my year with Android, I have come up with viable cross-platform alternatives — Google Docs is pretty good, and Mealime is great, too — but it still feels like Android apps play second fiddle to their iOS counterparts.

Apple deserves a lot of credit here, too. Android creation is known to be more cumbersome, both in app development due to Java, and in maintenance thanks to the sheer number of devices in use, but Apple has built an extraordinary ecosystem of dedicated developers that want to try to eke out a living on iOS. Apple's curation services are pretty great, too, especially with iOS 11: I always feel like there are great new apps to check out in the App store, but with Google Play I never know what the algorithm is going to feed me.
--------------------------------------------

This from a site dedicated to Android and from a writer who prefers Android.

Per "wertigon" Ekström

@Jim:

Of course the port will suck. It's almost a given.

That is why Android first is such a big thing. Big enough to make Apple shit their pants. Even more so is web apps, because web apps removes the lock in effect Apple has on it's users.

In a not far too distant future, Apple will have to play ball with the rest of the crowd, or risk losing it all. That means using web apps. They do not have Microsofts brawns to pull an old EEE trick; that requires a large market share.

And, here is the thing... Even Microsoft is starting to lose this battle among giants. But what is even more interesting is that both iOS and MacOS/OSX share has been steadily flat for the last 5 years:

https://images.techhive.com/images/article/2017/04/android-windows-ios-market-share-100716527-large.jpg

So sing your praises to the fruity temple and it's god Steve Jobs and demigod Tim Cook. Pretty soon, it will go the same way as Thor... :)

Abdul Muis

@Jim Glue

I really awe by your guerrilla technique. You pretend to cheers for android, but then, you say other words. You really need to see a psych.

"the iOS versions are often better...often...having nothing to do with ads or not. You can pay to turn off the ads, or play and deal with ads. Same with Android...or am I wrong? I think I've only bought 1 Android app."

Often is NOT means ALL or say MOST. Often is means SMALL PERCENTAGE, which also means the other way might be true. Such as Android version might be better.... more often...!!!

I give you example... and please don't spread more lies after you see example.....
Minecraft (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mojang.minecraftpe) is PAID apps in android
Football Manager (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sigames.fmm2018) is PAID apps.

"This from a site dedicated to Android and from a writer who prefers Android."
"My banking app, for instance, brought Touch ID (and, thanks to transferrable APIs, Face ID) support to its iOS app two years ago; the Android version forces me to enter my password like a chump every time. My favorite writing app, Bear, has no intention of building an Android version, and my formerly favorite meal-planning app, Grocery King, hasn't updated its Android app in over two years."


So, you hand pick an article to proof you're right?

How about this:

The 'only' card in HK that everyone has, no iOS apps that have the same functionality as this android apps
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.octopuscards.nfc_reader

The largest bank in Indonesia don't have the equivalent iOS apps... and they don't bother
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=noi.mandiri.emoney
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=id.co.bankmandiri.mandiriemoneynfc

The transport card in singapore that every singaporean has, no iOS apps that have the same functionality as this android apps
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Daylight.EzLinkAndroid

Per "wertigon" Ekström

@Jim:

No, the app ecosystem is not stronger. The paid apps ecosystem is stronger. If you look at downloads - Android is king. Eyeballs - Android is king. Everything on Android is an order of magnitude larger, and in most non-US markets Android is already king. The Android ecosystem is already quite successful - and will only be uprooted in the same way Windows was.

Because, see, an ad does not have to generate money directly. If I advertise diapers to a young couple, that ad will stick. These two people will not care about it because they have not planned on children in the near future anyway. A few years down the road, both having secured good careers, well, they will get that baby... And all of a sudden, diapers are yet another thing to buy - and you remember that brand from a couple of years ago. So, not only is the ad affecting current sales, it's also affecting future sales.

I think you should look into the advertising industry and how it's sustained.

Jim Glue

Hi Per,

Seeing more ads does NOT equal more money. It's WHO see's the ads and what they do with the ads. There is no doubt Android has greater reach....but so far that has NOT turned into greater revenue globally. The first we've heard of Android eeking out a revenue lead is with games in China.

Having a bunch of free loaders using your resources without generating income....isn't really what any developer is hoping for and a LOT of what you get with Android.

Mind you, there is money being made...good money. Just better money on iOS. I've been expecting this to change for years simply due to the numbers. But it's always "going to happen any day now" but hasn't yet.

And, of course, we still have no visibility on the revenue that is generated outside the app stores or Apple's/Google's ad system. What is facebook making on iOS vs Android? WeChat? Line?

Right now neither platform is making 'all the money'. If you pick only one platform or the other, you are leaving a lot of money on the table. Which is why every successful app or service supports both. Small developers with limited resources might pick one or the other and stay that way.

Jim Glue

Hi Abdul,

I think you simply don't understand the notion that not everyone just picks a side and then closes their mind. I like tech. I like Windows, Mac and Linux. I like iOS and Android. I like servers and desktops and laptops and mobile phones and smart watches.

Android has great things about it. But Android has it's share of weaknesses as well. Same for iOS.

I admire Apple. Just think about it. Just think about the task Apple had before them. Their cash cow iPod business was under clear threat. Music phones were on the way. Their first effort to team up with a cell phone manufacturer was a disaster: The Motorola Rockr.

Apple needed to enter the mobile phone market themselves as a complete telecom novice going up against the likes of Nokia, Motorola, Sony-Erricson, RIM, Palm and Microsoft. The vision Apple had for what a smartphone should be was going to run head long against the business model of ALL the telecom giants: China Mobile, Docomo, Verizon -- and every other carrier.

All the major carriers said no to Steve Jobs. All of them. So Apple had to come up with a plan to team up with the 2nd or 3rd place carriers and give them exclusive deals for the iPhone in exchange for complete control of the user experience. In effect, turning the carriers into "dump pipes".

And Apple succeeded against all odds. Apple was the most ferocious competitor after all. Not Nokia. Not Motorola. Not RIM nor anyone else. The carriers themselves became Apple's direct enemies. They went from not wanting the iPhone to demanding SOMEONE ELSE bring them their own "iPhone killer".

RIM got the first shot with it's Blackberry Storm. It failed. Then Palm was given their shot with the Palm Pre. It failed. THEN Android was given it's shot because the iPhone was stealing the best customers away from the non-iPhone-having leading carriers to the 2nd and 3rd tier carries who had iPhone exclusives.

All with a phone that had poorer specs than the competition.

10 years later and Apple barely even sells iPods anymore but has taken 3/4th's of all the profits to be made in the smartphone industry. 600M install base with 95% "my next phone will be another iPhone" loyalty. Even with an ASP more than 3 times that of the Android competition, Apple still has 14% market share and only one company sells more.

Yes, I like tech including Android. But man, how can anyone be a fan of the mobile industry and not admire Apple?

Abdul Muis

@Jim Glue

I like when you talk without your iFans hat. This way of talk.

You only see apple from apple point of view. The way apple intended. The thing is
(1) out of USA + 5 country. Apple is nothing, and this is not good for Apple in the long run. It means apple future is limited only to 'apple country'.
(2) as Tomi were saying... Even in USA, apple start to get hit.
(3) You said it yourself, apple do better than android, eventhough..... If only apple think bigger, apple could have 30% - 40% of marketshare. The high end + middle high market.
(4) The apple you know is gone. Burried... When steve jobs die.


Jim Glue

You have a poor perspective on Apple. Apple, of course, does well in markets where there is a middle class. Apple isn't going to take Vietnam or Kenya by storm anytime soon. But the US, The Euro 5, Japan, and Urban China alone are far far far larger than all the rest of the world economies combined. And Apple is doing well in the up and coming economies too...just not AS well, as there isn't the same middle class market.

And it's not just Apple that's making money here. This is where the largest money is made by Google, Samsung and Qualcomm too. This is the big leagues and this is where the pot of gold is. And it's Apple's domain.

You can add up ALL the profits being made by ALL of Android...and it doesn't come close to what Apple alone is making.

Stupid Nikki Halley Bully Girl

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/12/21/apple-lawsuit-slowing-down-old-iphone-models/
Apple = Slow Down Old Phone
Slow Down = Big Sales = More Money

Tester

Very interesting indeed.

And it fits perfectly with the impression I have of Tim Cook. He's clearly a money guy and will do everything to squeeze out more profit out of the same group of customers and intentionally degrading old hardware seems straight up his alley, along with cutting costs in production and producing accessory hardware he can peddle to his already existing customers.

The thing is, while it's a great strategy to increase short term profits, long term it will inevitably result in a disaster.

@Jim: So you still ogle at Apple's profits. Here's just the problem: Profits do not mean you have a sustainable business. And what Apple is running now does not look sustainable. There is no innovation, if they need something new they just buy it and lock it in to their ecosystem, thereby alienating all the existing users of the stuff they just bought and they are utterly dependent on a single product that has been the center of their existence for 10 years now. And instead of diversifying, all they do is lock in on that customer base with no attempt at all to widen it. They are constantly late with new features (why hurry if their EXISTING customers won't bother to check the competition?) and they increasingly move to proprietary solutions for everything instead of adopting industry standards. That's something that worked for Microsoft - but only because a) they had a quasi-monopoly on the desktop market and b) ultimately Windows was a relatively open platform where third party suppliers could fill the gaps Microsoft left.
No such luck with Apple. They control everything about iOS and any gap they leave will remain open, because no third party supplier will ever have a chance to address it.
And only a fool will believe that this isn't going to hit them sooner or later. Even Microsoft ultimately had to pay the price for their misdeeds, why should Apple be immune from it.

Abdul Muis

From googling the iphone battery....

What interesting is...
Apple creating a 'loophole'.
When the customer feel the phone slow, and upgrade.
Apple partner can buy the old phone, replace the battery, and the phone fast again.
Sell it for a good profit, after the battery got weak, the second-hand user will upgrade.

Jim Glue

Innovation...please. And did you not read my post? Do you not understand how daunting the task was for Apple to succeed?

As for the “much ado about nothing” - Apple’s optimizing performance to match the power of the battery is a good thing. It’s what you want to happen. If Android isn’t doing the same...shame on Android. Batteries do not last forever. Wasn’t that one of the big gripes about sealed batteries in the first place?

Apple has optimized to extend the life of the phone....and to deal with adverse temperature situations (which also lower battery capacity).

Phil W

For once I am in agreement with Jim on the battery issue. I think it is Apple being proactive with a very real issue that must affect all smartphones.

Phil W

And happy Christmas everyone.

Tester

Oh, come on!

If this was for the customer's benefit they'd have been honest and notified the customer.

If it happened as described, and I don't doubt that because reports of updates slowing down Apple devices have been going on for years, it's clearly a fraudulent act and no iSheep-apologism will suffice to justify it. This just sounds like a lame justification after discovery to contain the bad press. And it looks like the target audience is dumb enough to swallow it hook, line and sinker.

The whole thing gets fishy because it was done in secrecy instead of openly telling the user to replace the battery - and instead making them think that the phone has become obsolete, thus necessitating a full replacement.

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    Tomi Ahonen is a bestselling author whose twelve books on mobile have already been referenced in over 100 books by his peers. Rated the most influential expert in mobile by Forbes in December 2011, Tomi speaks regularly at conferences doing about 20 public speakerships annually. With over 250 public speaking engagements, Tomi been seen by a cumulative audience of over 100,000 people on all six inhabited continents. The former Nokia executive has run a consulting practise on digital convergence, interactive media, engagement marketing, high tech and next generation mobile. Tomi is currently based out of Helsinki but supports Fortune 500 sized companies across the globe. His reference client list includes Axiata, Bank of America, BBC, BNP Paribas, China Mobile, Emap, Ericsson, Google, Hewlett-Packard, HSBC, IBM, Intel, LG, MTS, Nokia, NTT DoCoMo, Ogilvy, Orange, RIM, Sanomamedia, Telenor, TeliaSonera, Three, Tigo, Vodafone, etc. To see his full bio and his books, visit www.tomiahonen.com Tomi Ahonen lectures at Oxford University's short courses on next generation mobile and digital convergence. Follow him on Twitter as @tomiahonen. Tomi also has a Facebook and Linked In page under his own name. He is available for consulting, speaking engagements and as expert witness, please write to tomi (at) tomiahonen (dot) com

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