Debate 2 Preview: Some Viewing Tips of What to Look for in Townhall Debate Trump vs Hillary

The Second Debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton is in St Louis today at 21:00 local time. It will have two moderators, CNN's Anderson Cooper and ABC's Martha Raddatz. But in a very significant change from the first debate, this one is a 'Town Hall' format, where the audience members ask the questions. The moderators have picked members of the audience and seen those questions and picked the questions so the moderators do get to guide the discussion into directions they think are relevant but the audience members ask the actual questions. So my 'debate viewer guide update' for this the Town Hall format debate, is this blog. To remind readers, I was a champion debater myself in college for four years, and for 3 years a debate coach, two years professionally at a ranked college debate university. So this is a debate preview blog not written by political or media expert but by an argumentation and debate professional (don't try this at home, haha)

First off, this debate is now in the shadow of Trump's Sexual Grabbing Tape scandal and his first public apology of his life. It is certain to be covered at the debate. Note, there also is a parallel news item from Hillary's side, Wikileaks released what they claim are emails from inside the Clinton campaign and what they claim are transcripts of Hillary's speeches to Wall Street. At least of what is currently in the public domain, those leaks are truly boring nothingburgers that wouldn't even get hard-core Bernie Sanders supporters too worked up about Hillary. No 'sold government secrets' type of revellations etc. But those leaks are very likely going to come up as well.

MUCH OF THIS IS STANDARD DEBATE TECHNIQUE

Now, to the debate itself. First off, I wrote my debate preview for the first debate. A very detailed article about the various techniques both sides could use and it showed well what Hillary did do, and why Trump fell into some traps and was also so easily provoked into various types of 'typical Trump' behavior patterns. That blog article applies totally to today's debate. I will not repeat it now. Please read it first, if you hadn't read it yet.

This article will only focus on 'finer points about the St Louis debate'. How will a Town Hall format impact the debate and what other issues may be in play. So we know that Trump could be any one of his conceivable public personas, from the mild lethargic calm and almost boring Trump, to the hyperactive, angry, paranoid and interrupting one we saw at Hosfstra University two weeks ago (Sean Hannity! Sean Hannity! Why isn't anyone calling Sean Hannity?). Hillary has the problem of having to prepare to debate any variation of a Trump. And very likely, even Trump himself doesn't know exactly how he will play the debate, what role he will take, and may not decide until he stands on that stage.

Which brings first issue of potential surprise. Trump might not be there. He may cancel and he could do it at a very last moment. Blame some evil plots against him and not show up. Then do some stunt to try to turn that into a 'victory'. We do know Rudy Giuliani, one of his closest confidants, has been advising Trump to not return to the debate stage because Giuliani knows debate well enough that Trump cannot win against Hillary and therefore he can only make matters worse. That said, Chris Christie was brought in to coach Trump for the second debate (and Christie is also known for doing town halls pretty well although he's also famous for being belligerent, feuding with audience members telling them to shut up and sit down, something Trump cannot do). Christie at least, and very likely also the Trump Campaign's long-time political advisor Senator Jeff Sessions, will know and will say, to skip a promised debate is suicidal in elections. Trump knows this or should know this himself, he boycotted the debate just before the Iowa Caucus in late January and Trump lost the first primary season election to Ted Cruz because of that decision.

The last debate had a live TV audience of 84 million (a record) plus millions more online. Usually the later debates do not see an increase in audience but rather a decrease, because some who were interested to see both candidates have made up their minds (some even voted) and so for the second debate, the interest declines, somewhat (I am obviously ignoring the VP debate). This debate is likely to see another huge audience and could even see a larger audience. Its Sunday night not Monday. The race features the very entertaining Trump who did have quite an epic breakdown in the first debate that generated a lot of discussion and jokes afterwards including a very popular Saturday Night Live parody, so there is the 'car crash' element that brings part of an enthusiastic audience. Then there is the sex tape, sex scandals bring more of an audience. And on Saturday night, 22 hours earlier, SNL ran its parody of Trump's sex tape scandal, further boosting the interest in the race. The race is also seen to be close in the polling, and a close race generates more interest than a blowout race. And for those in inside-politics, the current crisis in the Republican party and suddenly eroding Trump support (due to the sex tape) adds to the drama. Its very possible that the Sunday debate even exceeds the audience of the first debate. It will definitely be far larger than most 'second debates'.

The main 'boxing match' aspect of the debate is the same as last time. Hillary will want to get under Trump's skin, to antagonize him and provoke childish behavior. She will also use more sophisticated debate technique and psychology to get Trump to fall into 'debate traps' where Trump is led to argue some particular point, that Trump might feel is a strong suite for him, but one that Hillary's debate prep has figured out how to defeat and win the argument. So for example, the Miss Universe argument last time, that was direct provocation, get Trump to jump in and make a fool of himself (and damage himself badly with women voters). But a 'trap' was how Hillary talked about the race and policing issue, inviting Trump to solve the 'police and guns in inner cities' problem - to which Trump eagerly jumped in with one of his favorite solutions for inner cities - stop-and-frisk - something that blacks HATE - and which then brought out 12 minutes of damaging debate for Trump where he spent a good part arguing that point with Lester Holt the moderator, a black man, who knows perfectly well that stop-and-frisk is illegal. So Hillary will use these kinds of methods in the debate too.

On Trump's side, he will try to appear Presidential, to seem to have a reasonable grasp of the issues, and to come across as considered and with the right skills and experience and temperament to be President. He utterly failed this last time, even a quarter of Republican supporters and by far most of Independents felt Trump lost the debate. So he has a far tougher goal now. He needs to WIN this debate, even as his expectation levels are lower than those for Hillary who clearly won the first debate. But Trump is likely to come in with a mental model to try to appear sane and calm and very 'reasonable'. And that may last 20 minutes of the 90 minute debate. Note, just like last time, there are no breaks, no TV ad breaks, not toilet breaks. This is a SEVERE handicap for Trump who cannot maintain focus for anywhere near that long, but ironically, it is what the Trump side demanded, when they thought Hillary could not sit still for 90 minutes and they thought this was going to give them the advantage. Now, Trump with his thin skin is easily provoked and has a 70 year lifelong learned habit to interrupt anyone always for any reason and to correct by interruption any points he thinks are wrong. Hillary's team has cataloged hundreds of such issues, that Hillary has meticulously memorized and is ready to throw them in Trump's face, to provoke his reactions. This test of wills is in some way the theoretical concept of which will win, the immovable object or the unstoppable force. Hillary wants to get under Trump's skin and he wants to avoid provocations. Last time Hillary won this race easily, and that candidate who becomes angry and aggravated, is always losing the debate to the TV audience. Hillary's is the most experienced TV debater in television history, Trump had never had a one-on-one TV debate before last time; his 11 debates of the Primary season were not very close in prepping him for the way this type of debate will work. Please read my first debate preview, all those issues still apply here. 

AUDIENCE INTERACTION SKILL

The audience is different this time. The questions will probably all, or at least mostly, come from the audience (but the moderators will do follow-ups and guide the discussion, do any possible fact-checking and at times will be pressing the debaters if they try to avoid answering). This requires a good deal of EMPATHY and sympathy. The debater should listen attentively to the voter asking the question and memorize their name, not interrupt or argue with that voter directly, and show they understand, empathize with whatever issue it was, and then respond. As always, the proper debate technique is: answer the question asked, but pivot quickly to your related talking point (where your political argument can be won), then include an attack on your opponent. Include a joke and a good smile (or if its a question about a tragedy, personal story, son lost in the war, daughter died of drug overdose, obviously then be very serious about it). Always answer, pivot, attack. Always. A good experienced debater can vary the sequence, answer, attack, pivot but those three parts are in a good political TV debate response EVERY time. If you didn't answer, you lose points for being evasive and open yourself for attacks by your opponent. If you don't pivot to your own talking point, you're not convincing the audience that they should vote for you. And if you don't attack the rival, they don't have a reason to vote against the rival.

If its a normal moderated debate, one moderator or panel of moderators, the debaters get a 'feeling' of how the interactions go, and have verbal and non-verbal signals of how the communication balance is going. Trump struggles with this because of his overbearing style and tendency to try to dominate every conversation. Hillary comes across easily as 'too polished' and 'too calculated' from literally decades of trying to avoid press attacks and 'gotcha' questions. But with a live voter audience Town Hall, EVERY interaction with an audience member is a NEW person, whose interpersonal interaction with the candidate(s) is unique. Whether the voter likes you and your party or not, the candidate HAS to appear to sincerely want to listen to the voter and pay attention and UNDERSTAND the question. Not to argue with the voter under any circumstances.

Well, we've seen this dynamic many times with Trump. He is prone to instantly correct audience members - on things Trump cannot possibly know better than the audience member. Two perfect examples. At the Commander-in-Chief forum, Trump argued with a military veteran woman, about suicide rates, where of course the woman was correct and Trump had the wrong number. And recently in Nevada, Trump corrected an audience member on the CORRECT pronounciation o the state's name - to a Nevadan !!! I think the locals know best how their state name should be pronounced. This type of instinctive corrective behavior is extremely off-putting and definitely not statesmanlike. And Trump is prone to do this all the time. It is EVEN more difficult for Trump because he cannot go into the debate as 'lethargic' and not attack - because he HAS to ATTACK HILLARY. So his mind needs to be able to focus, do not attack audience members but do attack Hillary. The audience itself will side immediately with any audience member who is attacked, so if (and when) Trump does this, he will lose his live audience. As I explained in the previous debate preview blog, Trump thrives emotionally on the audience feedback and will feel vulnerable and cornered, if the audience doesn't rush to his side. Its even worse if Trump senses the audience is taking sides with Hillary, against Trump.

We have seen Hillary do Town Halls. Its her FAVE debate format. Its the most intimate and the one where the range of topics is most vast, allowing her cyborg-like memory to dig out the most astonishing wonky details to address any conceivable issue (Trump is likely to expose on some questions that he doesn't even understand the question itself). Trump interrupts, he doesn't remember the question, and he very often then starts to talk about his favorite topic - Trump. And brag about how rich or smart he is, or where he has a building or golf course. Hillary personalizes every response very deeply to the voter, addresses them by name and makes SURE she answered the question, before pivoting to her point and attacking Trump. And this is timed of course, with a clock. Trump had a 2 minute clock on a 'Town Hall prep' event he ran this week, he never stayed within the time, didn't answer most questions, rambled onto nonsense and those were not audience questions, they were actually questions from a moderator. So it was only a pretend-town-hall. 

The further problem with the Town Hall is the rebuttals. If you don't answer the question to a journalist/moderator in most debates, they KNOW you won't want to answer some questions, all politicians in all press events try to avoid some questions. They don't take it personally. But in a Town Hall, if you forgot the question and didn't answer it - then to POINT OUT that the other side didn't actually answer - now let ME answer your point - makes the other side look really shady. You didn't answer a legitimate question from a VOTER. It looks very bad. Its another way you lose the live audience (and the rival to pick up the love). Hillary has the debate technique and capacity, to LISTEN to Trump's answers, not on 'how can I attack the other side' but rather, with empathy - is the other side ANSWERING THE QUESTION from the voter. This is a far higher-order mental drain during the debate. If you focus on that, you can't ALSO work on trying to pick up debate conflicts and contradictions and point THOSE out. This was what we saw in the infamous debate that killed Marco Rubio's run where Chris Christie stabbled Rubio again and again. Rubio's mind was on his next talking points, Christie KNEW how to answer that issue and was over-prepared on the ISSUES, he could focus on how RUBIO was answering - to catch Rubio's mistakes. And on the 'he didn't answer' part - Hillary did this already in the first debate. This is the level of technique that is utterly beyond Trump's ability, because his mind is only trying to remember for 90 minutes to try to appear Presidential.

PARANOIA

Trump is prone to paranoia as it is. He is utterly ill-prepared for audiences that feature undecided moderate voters, as his rallies only feature very die-hard Trump supporters of nearly-white audiences. So as Trump throws his 'standard lines' into the audience, he will get usually muted or even stunned silence reactions. This time there are two moderators not one, and very likely both will challenge Trump at some points on either fact-checking or pressing Trump on questions he had not answered. As there are two of them, they can possibly act MORE to curtail Trump's natural tendency to interrupt constantly, to grab extra time and speak over others. Anderson Cooper had a difficult time in an earlier CNN Republican debate and will also have tried to learn from that in how to try to constrain Trump more. This all means, Trump is likely to arrive to the conclusion inside his head, by mid-debate, that the debate moderators are conspiring against him. As Hillary is highly disciplined and has excellent debate technique, she will tend to answer each question, so the moderators have far less 'need' to press Hillary or fact-check her, this will aggravate Trump more, to think its a rigged debate.

But the audience is likely to be his worst enemy. If Trump starts to feud with some voters, he may well find again that the whole audience turns against him and starts to laugh AT him like they were at the end of the first debate. Then Trump feels his under siege from all sides, Hillary hitting her, now two moderators conspiring against him, and the audience against him. Then, there is possibly a semi-successful stifling of Trump's natural style - to interrupt less. If this is not by Trump's own self-induced discipline, but is forced upon him by the double-teaming moderators - in that case Trump will feel boxed in. He'll be even more paranoid. Trump hated the fact that Mike Pence, his dim-witted VP, scored by Republican pundits as the far better debater than Trump. So he has that worry in his mind. And Trump read all the reviews how Hillary tricked Trump in the first debate in one trick after the next, and once he senses Hillary's traps forming (or imagined traps) he may go on wild alternate topics to talk about, abandoning his train of thought and sound like a totally goofy confused uncle.

This all in the context of Trump's own palace revolt within the Republican party. A third of Congressional Republicans have now denounced Trump, many of those calling for Trump to quit. This is in the sex tape aftermath. So very VERY recently, past 48 hours, Trump has a true existential crisis on his hands, where many very close from Republican party leadership to according to gossip, also Senator Jeff Sessions, has urged Trump to drop out of the race! Paul Ryan revoked Trump's invitation to come campaign with Ryan in Wisconsin (would have been their first joint appearance) and Ryan has stopped the funding of Trump campaign work by Republican party operatives! Its a true total palace revolt going on in his backyard. Meanwhile Kellyanne Conway did not show up at TV show to try to defend her boss's sex tapes and her appearances for Sunday TV shows were replaced by... 3 times married and very unfaithful Rudy Giuliani. Conway may already have been fired (or may have resigned). And its likely the Trump Tower brain trust is in full crisis mode where possibly the nominal Campaign Manager (Conway) has departed the campaign, one advisor says 'cancel the debates' Giuliani, one advisor says 'quit the race' Jeff Sessions, one campaign advisor says 'you need serious debate prep in town hall format' ie Chris Christie. And no doubt, Roger Ailes gives advice on how to deal with a sex tape scandal and grabbing women by their private parts. Is Trump capable of focusing on the debate prep at all? And how calm and focused will he be on Sunday eve? There are rumors he is trying to hire a new Campaign Manager to replace Conway (may be already hired, may be that the sex tape just scared that potential new 'professional' person away haha). Trump's mind is not by any means 100% on the debate, because his very expensive personal gamble, the Presidential run that Trump has now also personally funded by something near 20 million dollars, is now being threatened. Trump's mind will prioritize his OWN money first in any situation.

SEXUAL TOPIC

The sexual assault bragging on the sex tape by Trump, which he admits and apologized for, is a crime. He has sexually attacked women. The reporting on this area of Trump's background is in accelerated mode and for example, his past lawsuits include 6 rape lawsuits and over a dozen sexual assault cases - that Trump has SETTLED. He did something. But he has very good lawyers who always have ended up paying and then forcing Trump's sex crime victims to sign non-disclosure agreements. A long series of audio recordings emerged from Howard Stern's radio show, of similar crude language and Trump talking of his nasty attitudes to women. Then there are DOZENS of stories of other Trump related creepyness including stories he slept with Apprentice and Miss Universe contestants, to the horrible child labor sex trade story about his 'modeling agency'. And of course Trump is known for raping his first wife, for being unfaitful to that first wife, forcing his second wife to pose for Playboy, then being unfaithful to his second wife, and bought his third wife, a Slovenian hooker, escort model, and of course has been unfaitfhful to the third wife too. And Trump is scheduled to go to court on his next rape court case, this a 13 year old girl.

Trump issued his non-apology apology (I apologize if someone was offended) where he did not apologize or sexually assaulting women. And in that apology Trump threatened to bring up Bill Clinton's infidelity issues at the debate. We KNOW this is what ALL his advisors including his KIDS have said he CANNOT do. It will not end up well. It will only damage Trump. He, a person who sexually assaulted dozens, would attack HILLARY for standing by her man, whose last infidelity was several decades ago. Hillary has no sexual scandals in her closet. So why would Trump do this attack? What could he possibly hope to achieve other than expose himself for vicious attacks on his own sexual history. And then .. turn Hillary into the martyr. Not to mention, Melania Trump just issued her forgiveness statement where she utterly condemns her husband's behavior - but stands by her rotten man anyway and asks all to forgive Trump. Now with that, Trump wants to then attack Hillary for doing EXACTLY the same back decades ago, what Melania is doing now.

Now. The right wing hates the Clintons. Stephen Bannon the Breitbart guy is no doubt pushing that Trump should go on the attack and bring the Bill Clinton topics up at the debate. Roger Ailes likely feels the same, that the attack is the best form of defense. I would say all true politicos, from Jeff Sessions to Chris Christie to Rudy Giuliani to Kellyanne Conway - understand this is a TOTAL LOSER strategy, it will backfire enormously and only end up making Hillary more popular and Trump a monster. I am sure at least Ivanka sees this too. I am certain by how Trump complained at the end of the first debate, that he could have attacked Hillary but was such a gentleman that he won't do it - haha, tells us he WANTED DESPERATELY to attack Hillary but all his advisors had convinced him that its suicidal, and he went by their rule. I am not sure he holds that view anymore.

Trump needs a big gamble that has a possible big upside and possible big downside. A big gamble. And that is, attack Hillary on Bill's history. The timing of this could not be worse for Trump. The format of the debate - Town Hall - is worst for this. And Hillary HAS PREPPED for this attack. She has a perfectly timed 60 second answer to use, that will get all women on her side, and will include a DEVASTATING attack on Trump. And we know how Hillary team's debate prep is COORDINATED with the Campaign. They have the attack ads READY. Hillary will bait Trump into areas where there is horrible video and words that Trump has used, that if he takes this attack, it will end up damaging Trump far more than it could possibly harm.... Bill Clinton. And Bill is not on the ticket. Why attack Bill? Hillary did not do the infidelity. Does Trump really want to argue, that if a husband is unfaithful, the woman should dump the husband - when Trump himself was unfaithful - and HE dumped his wives. It is a bizarre sexual abuser mindset that I honestly do not get. Any sane politician knows this is a madness strategy, you do not HINT at Bill Clinton's infidelity if you are Donald Trump (and your surrogates are Rudy Giuliani and Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes, some of the most notorious unfaithful or abusive men towards women).

I believe Kellyanne Conway and Chris Christie and the team have worked for 48 hours behind the scenes to prepare a tight, 90 second solid 'second apology' for Trump to memorize, that he will run, to get past the sex tape story. And if Hillary is smart, when she is given her chance to rebut, she'll say, no, she has nothing to add, she'll take Trump's apology, lets move on. Hillary knows she's already won the sexual abuse story. She wants Trump to have maximum time to ramble onto more word salad to destroy his campaign even more, on ever more new topics. And by not pursuing her 'obvious advantage' it would gain Hillary good points early on in the debate. This is what I think would be Trump's best case (and Hillary's best strategy on it).

At the other side, it could be that Trump comes out swinging, a total wrecking ball out of control, with wild allegations and ending up repelliing even more of the women that are left still voting for him and getting a NEW wave of rejections of Trump. This is Trump's natural instinct, and I betcha Chris Christie doesn't know which version Trump will do on stage Christie will do his utmost to urge Trump not to go there.

What to look for. How angry and interruptive will Trump get. Will he lose his cool (expect that to start about 30 minutes into the debate). Has Trump been told to not interrupt and how long into the debate can that last (I cannot imagine Trump able to hold that till the end of the debate). Will Trump again feud with moderators. Will he argue with voters. Will Hillary lay new traps. Will Hillary 'take the side of' audience members if Trump seems to be bullying some. Expect Hillary to be smiling again and seem her 'most humane' and 'most warm'. That is invariably how her town halls go. Out of all her debates, that she never ever loses, she does her BEST at town halls. If Trump the monster shows up, it may be that this is seen as her biggest triumph.

Also remember Hillary has a strategy they've plotted. The first debate was clearly designed to appeal strongly to two vital voting blocks, women and blacks. I think this debate has a similar purpose, I am guessing its another two voter blocks and it seems like the obvious next two are Hispanics and youth. And she'll likely have, like in the first debate, a DIFFERENT strategy preplanned, for both of those groups (with ample pre-tested argumentation and videos ready to roll, with various arguments to provoke predictable responses out of Trump).

But enjoy. If Trump loses badly, and his polling which is likely already baking in a decline from the sex tape, will now show a big drop (again) then Trump may well decide he won't bother with the third debate. This may be our last debate. (and there is even a slight chance that Trump quits the race and the last debate could even have Hillary debating Mike Pence haha)

The 'main debate preview' blog about technique and these two debaters is here.

My debate detailed aftermath of the first debate including the inside observations, is here.

Comments

[Dave Barnes]

Damn.
I love these analyses and predictions.
I am so pumped to watch the impending car crash this evening.

[grogxd]

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 3h

So many self-righteous hypocrites. Watch their poll numbers - and elections - go down!

https://frankzumbach.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/769px-quo_vadis_nero_burning_rome.jpg

BURN BABY BURN

What a delicious schadenfreude

[steve]

a 90 minute long dumpster fire, car crash and touchdown dance

[Millard Filmore]

Some notable op-eds from our favorite VP candidate, Mr. Pence including this sample:

- "Pence wrote that Clinton must resign or be impeached." (- "Mike, have you met Donald?")

- “Republicans, from George Washington to George W. Bush just have better ideas.”

https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/smoking-doesnt-kill-and-other-great-old-op-eds-from-mike-pen?utm_term=.px2LxPjB3#.rxvaKG251

https://twitter.com/briantashman/status/785224404213071872

[Tomi T Ahonen]

Hi Everybody

Attempting to read the tea-leaves before the debate (2 and half hours to go). Trump flew to St Lewis and didn't tell his press pool until they were already on the way. Nice move. BUT he flew there already. Would be a costly 'head fake' to then not show up and debate (but Trump not showing up would be haha, at least a big news item).

Trump has his family 'all' present and Kellyanne Conway has come back from the witness protection program. She sent a Tweet with a picture of her smiling in the limo with Trump. So she's in St Louis.

Well. I'd say... we heard Trump was interviewing for a new Campaign boss and suddenly Conway was pulled off the TV talk shows. It could have been the timing to fire her. And as that happened the sex tape mess got nasty. I'd guess whoever was coming in for the job decided, no, am not taking this turkey - and Trump decided to give Conway a new chance (and/or she threatened to resign and he was forced to give her a raise - and pay it in advance).

Conway on the trip with Trump means she is one of the voices Trump is listening to last - we know he always changes his mind based on who got to speak to him last - and as Rudy Giuliani was sent to do Sunday talk shows, I think its safe to say Giuliani is not the last man talking. Chris Christie should be the top (possibly only) debate coach currently advising Trump - who will be urging a sane strategy. Conway is CLEARLY the 'lets act sane' Campaign Boss who got Trump to Teleprompters and to try the Mexican gamble and the black outreach.

And with all his family in attendance, and I'm sure at least Ivanka and Melania have said to not go attack Bill, the Bill Clinton stuff won't come out early in the debate. I am guessing these 'tea leaves' tell us that Trump intends to try to play nice. That said, Hillary will be needling Trump all the way to try to push him off his balance. Trump may lose his control and start to attack Hillary on Bill ANYWAY but probably would only come towards the end.

(oh, pro tip - never signal in advance what your attack will be - look how Hillary did Miss Universe last time, drop the bomb towards the end of the debate with no advance hints of warning)

Oh one thing we do know. CNN has broadcast that the first question will be about Trump's sex tape and bizarrely - it will first go to Hillary. Thats a dumb way to use that question! Its about Trump give the question to Trump. If I was Hillary, especially knowing this, I'd have a really short response - totally unacceptable behavior to assault women or to brag about it, but I think its appropriate for Donald to answer, not for me to defend or attack him on it. (Bizarre time waste too, why is a Trump fault used to steal Hillary's time). But yeah both sides know the sex tape question is coming. I do hope the moderators have the sense to not go into asking Hillary about Bill or any sexual impropriety questions, and to direct Trump's problems at Trump.

One more just quibble. Hillary got the first question last time (meaning Trump got to speak last on the first debate). Why is Hillary AGAIN getting the first question. Don't the debate commission people rotate these things? But yeah, me being pedantic about these technical issues haha.

Tomi Ahonen :-)

[Millard Filmore]

"Why is Hillary AGAIN getting the first question."

How well did Trump do getting the last word in for the first debate? Maybe Hillary asked for this ;)

[Tomi T Ahonen]

Hi Millard

Actually I found out since posting that, that it was a coin-toss. Still, with 3 debates, you'd think they do one coin toss for all 3 and then do opposites, so whoever gets first question in first debate, gets 2nd question in 2nd and 1st question in last.. But rather, its apparently a coin toss for each debate. Ok, I think thats stupid but I think many things are stupid :-)

Tomi Ahonen :-)

[Millard Filmore]

I am watching the debate now. Trump is sniffeling. I wonder why ... stress?

He is rambling.

[Millard Filmore]

Donald says we are letting Syrians in by the thousands and we know nothing about them. Sheesh! These refugees are vetted up the wazoo. Hillary missed a good zinger: "We know more about the refugees than we know about Trump."

[Millard Filmore]

@FIGJAM says: "the San Bernardino muslim jihad murderer was vetted by FIVE different government agencies"

Well, that sure has a truthy feel to it, so with about 2 minutes on Google I found that Farook was not a Syrian refugee. As an American born person, would you please explain which FIVE government agencies are responsible for letting him into the country?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack

"Farook was an American-born U.S. citizen of Pakistani descent"

[Millard Filmore]

@FIGJAM: Tashfeen was not a refugee. Did she get the same depth of vetting as the ones coming out of Syria?

I appreciate your concern for our safety. Since you (we) are MUCH more likely to die from a drunk driver than a crazy Muslim, we should outlaw alcohol, right?

Since you (we) are MUCH more likely to die from gun violence here in the USA than a crazy Muslim, we should have very strict gun control, right? Maybe outlaw them entirely!

What should we do with the rabid crazy Christians? There are plenty of them scattered around the country.

[Millard Filmore]

@FIGJAM: We went through a period much worse than you describe, 100 years ago more or less. Google up "lynching" and even in Europe you should get some high ranking links describing what went on. These activities were carried out by good pious Christians, not Muslims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States

Are you advocating that barbed wire fenced be constructed on the border, with machine gun towers, and shooting anyone desperate enough to attempt a crossing? Maybe the time has come to close your eyes and turn your back. Things will get much worse than they are now.

There are more than 7 billion souls on this planet and still more are coming. If global warming does not do us in, the humans will.

[Millard Filmore]

@FIGJAM: "I am advocating for the right of white Westerners to have a home"

Interesting thought. What happens to white residents that do not like the life you have selected for them? How far will you go to suppress or evict them? What happens to the current non-white residents?

Will your leader be allowed to decide that your homeland should include an area not currently under his control?

Should all us white people in the USA return to Europe so that the original residents of North America can have their homeland back?

[grouch]

Millard Filmore:

We should give the continent back to the mammoths. (My history is a wee fuzzy, but I think they were here before the Mongol hordes crossed over from Asia). Any of these deplorable white aryan mixed-breed mutts who can't show at least 51% mammoth DNA should be deported, extremely deported, the best deported.

Back to Trump the Dumpster; I find it curious that Native Americans lost a continent to (mostly) European invaders and yet they can't manage to lose enough to bankrupt casinos. Guess it takes yuuuuge business acumen to do that.

[Millard Filmore]

@grouch: Yep, it takes a white man to lose by the metric tonne.

[grouch]

Was it you who pointed us to wonkette? I find the level of snark there strangely soothing after enduring Dumpster's noise.

Found there tonight:

"Donald Trump says that if elected he will appoint a special prosecutor to go after Hillary Clinton despite multiple investigations showing she committed no crimes. If he's willing to do that to her, what will he do to you if you disagree with him?"

[Millard Filmore]

More Trump news, all Trump all the time. Mr Trump tried to seat Bill Clinton’s accusers in an elevated family box, to see if Mr Clinton would shake hands. Classy guy that Trump. The Commission on Presidential Debates said "no can do".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141593048

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/10/trumps-debate-plan-to-seat-bill-clintons-accusers-in-family-box-was-thwarted/?postshare=811476078962605&tid=ss_tw

At the bottom of the democraticunderground article there is this:

"According to Robert Costa, Trump is now demanding the head of the debate commission step down before the next one. Looks like we have his excuse to pull out of No.3."

[Millard Filmore]

@grouch: yes, must have been a long while ago. That place is a real hoot!

[paul]

@Alabama

I concur!

The elections are lost for Trump!

[Wayne Borean]

I guess the food that the Indians gave the Puritans wasn't welfare.