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May 13, 2016



@Lullz: "In that case I assume you have lost all sympathy to almost all of the companies out there."

Only to those which share Apple's habit of spreading lies to their customers. Intel for example does apply shady tactics, but I haven't seen them outright lying.


> You think too big. Look a few levels below the big shots. There's an endless number of smaller companies whose specialty is to custom-assemble PCs at reasonable prices.

These companies often use off-the-shelf components. If the PC market shrinks, the motherboard makers will exit the business too. There will be no place to source cheap commodity parts.

Except maybe if you take hardware that is intended for mobile (or servers, but that is expensive) and then build into a PC form factor. But then a mobile device gives you exactly the same functions and can be conveniently carried around with you.

No matter how you look at it, PCs are not going to be viable at some point. Either they are going to be hugely expensive, or their capabilities will at most match those of a mobile device.

Apple is maybe bad, lying to their customers ("you must be holding it wrong"), and a patent aggressor, etc.
But Intel is by far a much worse company than Apple.
Some examples of Intel's illegal and unethical practices:

Maybe Apple will be the first to bring a good desktop to the mobile phone. Maybe somebody else. Fact is that many companies are working on it and are investing serious resources. For the sake of my argument it doesn't matter which company's concept will catch on in the end.



iSheep detected.
iPiot aka iPot. Real iSheep
Canit acept android win.
Canot acept apple peak
Canot acept otger oponin
Jealus to android


@Piot: "On a previous thread you said that Apple should be forced by law to change the way that their products work. i.e. Make their stuff the way YOU want them to work"

Thank you for the good laugh in the morning! Obviously, you are a corporate shill who does not even know what a bootloader is, otherwise you would not come up with such a totally unsubstantiated bullshit.

For those other participants not in the know: Apple locks the bootloader of iOS devices with a key. This key is unknown to the customer. As a result, Apple controls your device. You can only flash Kernels, drivers and Operating Systems which are certified by Apple. This is unlike OS X devices, which are unlocked.

We had a discussion about this. I and some other folks here have the opinion that by law vendors should be forced to provide the bootloader key TO USERS WHO WANT TO HAVE IT. OTHER USERS ARE UNAFFECTED, IF THE OWNER SIMPLY DOES NOTHING THE DEVICE IS STILL CONTROLLED BY THE VENDOR.

Piot and Lullz think that corporations should be in control of the devices they sell, not the owners. As justification, they come up with idiotic statements like above.

This is not only restricted to Apple. US carriers like Verizon and AT&T mostly sell bootloader-locked versions of Android phones, even though other versions may be unlocked or unlockable (meaning the owner can get the bootloader's key from the manufacturer).

Other phones, like the LG G5, can only be unlocked if you have the EU version. As US customer, you are at the mercy of LG.

For Piot and Lullz, being dependent on the manufacturer of a phone is a positive which has no negative side effect whatsoever.

Letting the owner of a device decide whether he wants to have his device managed by the vendor or by himself is bad, instead corporations should have full control over devices they don't even own.

They seem to like a distopian future where customers have to put up with every crap the hardware vendors/ government throw at them.


@Lullz: Your pathetic babbling does not get better by repeating it.

So you think that it is OK that US customers of LG are at the mercy of this corporation, while EU customers can take matters in their own hand?

So you think that US customers should have LESS RIGHTS than EU customers?

In case you didn't notice it: This is _NOT_ about iOS vs. Android. Instead, this is about smartphone vendors artificially restricting what users can do with devices they own. This is a problem of the WHOLE INDUSTRY!

If only Apple would do this I wouldn't give a shit about this.

But this is a topic too complex for you: All you can do is defend Apple no matter what, but as soon as a topic shows up which requires some independent thougt, you are lost. I feel sorry for you.



What has all that to do with market share? Android is already free software.


@Wayne Brady:

You apparently have no clue that desktop software works differently than tablets or smartphones.
Just look at Linux: It only has 2% market share but that's enough that there's quite a bit of software for every task. If Android gets a true desktop mode and the common frameworks add support for it the situation will be different than for tablets.

All that is really needed is another serious misstep by Microsoft and someone aggressively moving in to fill the void. But of course, as an Apple user I wouldn't expect you to understand since it's beyond your horizon.

So why is the tablet situation so dire? Simple answer: There is no market for it. I know quite a few tablet users and without exception they use the tablet as a pure media consumption device, not for productivity and even less for utility apps - those thrive on 'mobile' which tablets aren't.

Per "wertigon" Ekström


It's not that Apple is not within their right to keep the keys to a signed bootloader.

BUT - It's like this. Apple sells you a house. A great house to be sure, and it fits your needs almost perfectly. You only wish you could do some stuff like, move around the furniture which is nailed to the floor, but those are minor gripes since the furniture is impeccably placed.

However - Apple sells you not only the house, but also the land it stands on. As a house owner, do you or do you not agree that you should have the right to do any of the following:

* Repaint your house
* Extend the house
* Bulldoze the house to build your own dream house

Now you might say "What the hell why would you EVER want to bulldoze a perfectly good modern house?!?!?!" and you are correct, most would not wish to bulldoze that house. But a tiny percentile wants to do it.

And there is no good reason why they should not be able to do this, their land, their property. Except because... Apple says so. Therein lies the rub.

Per "wertigon" Ekström

@Piot: I may decide later on that "Oh wait, this house is built for a family of four... And my wife just got pregnant with triplets!"

Rather than move out I then may decide I wish to remodel my house since that is the cheapest option. I like the neighborhood and I like my neighbors I just want to make a couple of modifications to fit my family of seven.

It is *my* property. It is *my* say what I do with it. And unless one has a damn good reason for it (and Apple does not), noone should tell me what I can and cannot do with it - and especially not a multi-billion dollar company.

Would the ability to unlock my phone (and only my phone) hurt or harm anyone but myself when I brick it installing a new incompatible OS? No. There is zero reason why the phone is not able to be unlocked, except for "Apple says so". That's not a good enough reason.


Actually there is a good reason for manufacturers to lock down phones.

I had the chance to speak with an Amazon representative at a Linux conference this year. For the Fire Tablet (2015) there is inofficial CyanogenMod 12.1 support, and the developers don't want to make it official out of fear that Amazon would block such a move by locking down the device further (they already made booting TWRP impossible with a firmware update).

So I asked him whether these concerns are valid or not. And he said that Amazon generally doesn't mind people replacing Fire OS with whatever system they choose. But the content industry demands that the boot process is cryptographically secured so their DRM schemes are harder to subvert.



I have a friend who has an iPad 2 which would still work perfectly fine, it doesn't have one scratch.

Problem is, the last ios update made the device so slow that nobody in his family is using it anymore.

Of course it is neither possible to downgrade to a previous ios version, nor is it possible to tweak the OS to run faster.

Reason: Locked bootloader.

The same goes for Apple users who complain that the last update introduced this and that bug. Such users have to simply wait for a fix, no temporary downgrade possible.

Only an imbecile could think that these are situations where the customer profits from a locked down device. On the contrary, Apple has the power to make your older device unusable, thereby forcing a hardware upgrade.


@chithanh: Good example!

But I guess that Piot and Lullz love to own devices which are controlled by the vendor, the government and the content creators. What could possibly go wrong?



" But the content industry demands that the boot process is cryptographically secured so their DRM schemes are harder to subvert."

Apparently they never learn. So far no DRM system has not been cracked. All these idiots do is alienate more customers. Anyone who got screwed over by DRM once is never going to buy such protected crap ever again.

And by their stance on DRM they only help create monopolistic players in the content delivery industry who can dictate the terms later. The best example here is eBooks. It's only the DRM nonsense that made Amazon a near monopolist and is gradually putting any other eReader manufacturer out of business because due to DRM there is no business left for them. As things are right now I predict that this market will implode because it's terminally broken. And once all other eReaders are gone, the alternative content suppliers will soon follow. On price none of them can compete with Amazon anymore anyway.

Per "wertigon" Ekström


Yes, I can understand that content producers put pressure on manufacturers... But the way of draconian DRM is, well, not exactly what I'd call in the consumers best interest, due to the potential for abuse. So no, not a valid reason at all and manufacturers should fight this tooth and nail IMO.

Content producers still think it's a good idea with DRM - but they are digging their own grave:

Per "wertigon" Ekström


Actually, recent developments have proven too hard with current technology:

This I consider as a good thing however, since an uncrackable DRM copy will lose all the free advertising from piracy. When the game sells bad because it's bad, what are you going to blame it on then?


@Barney @Per
I fully agree that DRM is anti-consumer and futile in the long run.
But it is a reality that hardware manufacturers currently have to operate in.


@Lullz: "Obviously the N97 example was too much for you."

No, I simply ignored this one because of the aheer stupidity of your point: Apple's business practices and RDF-induced statements from iSheep have no relation whatsoever to an old Nokia commercial with faked UI transitions.

No sane person can see a relationship here.

"but in the end iOS devices work better because of the limitations."

And you still don't get the point that this is not about Apple, but the industry in general. The current trend is to lock down devices and to remove user's rights. Guilty is not only Apple, it's also LG, Samsung, Verizon, AT&T and other corporations.

I understand that you _DO_ like it when you install an OS upgrade which introduces new bugs. You _DON'T_ like to be able to revert to the previous version to get rid of the bugs immediately. Instead, you prefer living with the new bugs for a few weeks or months. This does not make sense at all, but you can do whatever you like.


@Lullz: Please enlighten us: What is the relationship between the Nokia video with the faked UI transitions and the business practices of Apple?

Your incoherent babbling does not lead to any insights here, it's just hot air.


@Lullz: I'm done with feeding the trolls now. You answer is proof of your cluelessness, this is enough for me.

If you still don't get it: Nokia may have ridiculed itself with this commercial (a long time ago), but this does not make Apple's actions better. Both topics are completely independent to each other, there is no excuse, neither for Apple nor for Nokia.

Per "wertigon" Ekström


Could be because Apple is, y'know, doing this stuff as we speak (hence news) and Nokia stopped doing it (hence no longer news)?

We are shitstorming Apple and everyone else about it because the practice is utterly repulsive. It's just that you as a true iPhone Patriot sees Apple negative comments and immediately runs to defend the company.

So no, we're not singling out Apple. You are. :)

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