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December 05, 2014

Comments

baron99

It's not an article ...its a research paper. The astroturfers want facts but all I get back is opinions (or their "view" ...is there a difference) with name calling as they attempt to re-write history. I mearly pointed out there was an comprehensive research paper about Vista. Then I get a lot of crap. Speaking of crap, there is a lot of the vista crap still embedded in the microsoft code. History is a big part of the WP failure and microsoft struggles. If you are an intelligent analyst you need to figure that out.

Next, the astroturfers will be telling us how much microsoft is really loved by the operators. ...but we may have to "wait" awhile to see it :-)

adi purbakala

Meanwhile
The real Nokia android phone... Nokia C1 leaking in the web today.

Sweet..
Nokia C1 = entry level?

Earendil Star

Nokia C1... curious to see if it is confirmed or not.
If it is, we are really witnessing an attempt by Nokia to stage a comeback.
Not sure if they will succeed, but it is finally a sign of independent life after the devastating MS tenure since mid-2010.

In other news, Windows 10 is almost being released and people are still talking... Vista? Lol.
Just saying, because I have no affiliation with any Baron writing comments on this blog.

A comment on astros however.

I just went back reading some past articles by Tomi (back from 2010/11), and I believe it is really a shame he deleted lots of comments from the likes of Baron, LeeBase, ExNokian And ThisWillBeToo etc. back then. If he had kept them, we would have an eternal testimony of how biased and unfounded lots of comments were, which we can now only desume from the replies that were made. All in defense of Elop, MS, WP. Always avoiding discussion on any factual element that was brought into the debate, always neglecting the most important aspects, to sway attention from what was happening. The main reasoning was that WP was the only possibility for Nokia: WP was the way to differentiate (forgetting that it was so locked it impeded any differentiation whatsoever) vs Android, etc. etc.
The fact that Nokia's adoption of WP as *exclusive* (P)OS was crazy, as it gave MS total control on future profits, was always neglected. As was the absurd inbalance of the deal in MS' favor, given that MS was in panic mode trying to catch up in mobile, while Nokia was still n.1 worldwide. BaseLess replies were always in line with standard MS propaganda and FUD.

Fast forward 2014. Nokia's WP adventure ended in failure, the company almost went bankrupt, Nokia mobile unit is now firmly in MS hands, after being bought for peanuts. As myself and many others had correctly predicted, the Elop the Trojan tenure was a Flop. Certainly for Nokia, but possibly (and somewhat surprisingly) also for MS, given the meager results they got out of what could have amounted to a much more succesful endeavour if only they had been less shortsighted (and chosen a better Trojan than Elop).
Yet, the usual suspects, as soon as anything happens that does not run along the MS storyline, come back in force in MS' defense, and go back attacking Nokia once again. "This is no longer the real Nokia". "Copycats". Etc. etc. Why?

Why not just sit back and relax, while watching Nokia's attempt at a comeback? Why not just being neutral on Nokia's struggle to keep its brand alive in mobile, after the MS forced clauses expire? Because this is what is happening: Nokia is just trying to come back asap in mobile, lest people forget its name in the market.
Why not just wait and see what happens when the N1 and possibly the C1 really come out? Maybe they will be cool devices and have success, maybe not. But why being immediately so biased just because Nokia is no longer following the MS agenda?

As long as the usual suspects continue spreading pro-MS propaganda, insist in their bias and shy away from replying to any of the hard facts being debated, they will just vindicate their being called astros. Period.

And the usual and off-topic personal attacks to any dissenter will just add validity to this diagnosis.

Winter

@Earendil Star
"As long as the usual suspects continue spreading pro-MS propaganda, insist in their bias and shy away from replying to any of the hard facts being debated, they will just vindicate their being called astros."

Sorry, but what is here often called "MS astroturfing" is mostly meant as attacks on Android itself. Android is the "enemy" of Apple and proprietary OS' (or the American Way). As such, WP is defended as an enemy of an enemy.

E.g., Boron95 talks up MS as that strengthens Apple's position. Others might simply dislike a FLOSS phone stack, or Google. Yet others simply think MS won, and therefor must have been better in all respects.

And maybe, just maybe, we are wrong and they are right? I know, I do not believe it myself, but it is a possibility they will take very serious.

Tester

@Earendil Star and baron99:

I don't see any pro-MSFT propaganda here, just a levelheaded dicussion about their past products; why they became the way they are and why all that legacy support is a burden for development. Nobody here disagrees with the fact that Vista had problems, what they do is disagree with what the linked research paper concludes

I also see no hard facts presented, all you have is said single research paper that presents an incredibly biased analysis. Sorry, I can't take it seriously if someone predetermines the cause of failure and then writes a long treatment, trying to prove every single shortcoming from that single cause. This is 100% someone to push an agenda, not doing a reasonable analysis of a product and its problems.

So right now it's a few trolls trying to torpedo the discussion with the idiotic notion that anyone not trashing Microsoft is an astroturfer by default.


It takes no genius to decide which side has more merit in this discussion. It's not you!

Tester

@Leebase:

"Android's numbers must eventually count for more than just numbers. Hasn't yet."

... and the only reason is the US market. In most other countries the tides have already turned and if the US are not your prime market, Android is definitely the #1 already. And there's lots of products whose main focus lies elsewhere.

KPOM

@Tester, I believe iOS is also #1 in Japan, though the numbers are volatile and skewed because the pent up demand from NTT DoCoMo's delayed introduction of the iPhone in 2013 sent sales through the roof (and made the iPhone 6 launch appear somewhat subdued by comparison). iOS' market share in Canada is also similar to that in the US.

baron99

Such delusional astroturfers ... now they taking credit for Tomi's predictions (based on his data)! And, of course, any well written, well documented and well referenced research simply has to be biased if it doesn't match up with the microsoft talking points the astroturfers want to employ in their re-write of history. If anyone has taken the time to read the research the Q+A at the end explicitly deals with the (expected) bias attacks by the microsoft supporters/astroturfers.

It must be really killing the astroturfers that their wonderful microsoft WP is going down the toilet in a nice slow costly demise ...and us "haters" (this term represents the level of intelligence by the astroturfers who try to shut down debate by name calling) continually present facts and get biased talking points in return. But, we are "all in" to watching the toilet drain :-) ...and we can wait, and wait, and wait and wait for it. :-) It's has been a great privilege to present facts on this forum that annoy the astroturfers. WP is the gift that just keeps giving! :-)

BTW, Maybe I should post the link again:
https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

baron99

Wow, If Tomi is wrong so much, WHY do you come here? ...Please feel free to go off and write books with your own data and analysis. ...I am sure they will be best sellers at microsoft LoL

zlutor

@Tomi: any opinion about this: http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_c1_is_the_companys_first_postmicrosoft_android_phone-news-10552.php

Code name of the project could be "Operation MiddleFinger?" :D

Maybe it is fake but if it is true really sad to see yet an other iThingy (design) clone from Nokia - even if the purpose is only to keep the brand name visible...

On the other hand it is interesting to see all devices are based on Intel SoC, manufactured by Foxconn - I think it does not cost too much for Nokia to get them into the market... :D

abdul muis

http://www.nokiapoweruser.com/first-batch-of-20000-nokia-n1-sold-out-in-4-minutes-in-china-next-batch-arrival-on-15th/

566,438 try to buy the Nokia N1, but only 20,000 got it. sold out in 4 minute.

AppleTurfer

20000 that's all Foxconn made in their first batch?

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