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« The Microsoft Handset Opportunity with Nokia - the Full Analysis of Potential (its not looking good) | Main | Some Amazingly Big Milestones.. I truly love my life »

May 12, 2014

Comments

AndThisWillBeToo

@RA
"by Microsoft's idiotic decision to make them Intel only."

After you have just talked about upgrade path, backwards compatibility and all, how did you plan them to keep legacy Windows app compatibility on ARM?

RottenApple

@AndThisWillBeToo:

You know, there's such nice tools, called 'compilers'. As long as a program is well written it requires just one click on the 'compile' button to create a binary. And if ARM was supported that'd be all that needed to be done by a developer to get a working 'Windows for ARM' version.

Not rewriting the entire code because Metro is utterly incompatible with the desktop API.

AndThisWillBeToo

@RA

The whole point of including the desktop (pro version) is that you can keep running those same apps you have been running for last 10 years. In my case that includes few game titles, freeware picture editor and so forth. Do you really expect _any_ of those developers to dig their old source codes from 5+ years back and recompile? (especially if program in question was made by some company already out of business)
People in just about every forum (this included) have been blaming Win8 RT for being sold as "Windows" while it does not run _any_ legacy Windows programs. Same people would be doing just the same if Win8 Pro would run _all_ on Intel and _some_ on ARM. Consumers would be even more puzzled than they are today (and they are already today so puzzled it shows in sales).

GMAB.

Siasa

@WTL

You just confirmed that today it's not possible to write a web app with native class offline capability and doing that in a way that reaches 95-98% of the smartphone users. On Android you would probably need a new browser for that. On iOS it's not possible with Safari. With Safari it's not possible today to control the web apps one by one and choose exactly what to install or uninstall while not risking uninstalling everything if the browser is cleaned.

That can't be done with a web app today and you apparently can't even tell us when exactly that's going to be possible even for iOS. All the platforms would be needed if 95-98% coverage is wanted. Today that can be done with native apps.

Amazon account is not good enough simply because it can't reach practically all the app content there is. It also doesn't work for purchasing iOS web apps working just as well as the native ones in offline and controlled individually as well as the native apps.

Actually, you never even confirmed if the native web apps on iOS could multitasks. The limited multitasking is very handy on iOS. Can the native web apps use camera, multitask, play streamed music and use GPS while on background? Can that be done today? Can it be done today on Android with web apps? The native ones can do that and they can be used to reach 95-98% of the smartphones. Today. Not some day in the future but today.

RottenApple

@AndThisWillBeToo:

"People in just about every forum (this included) have been blaming Win8 RT for being sold as "Windows" while it does not run _any_ legacy Windows programs."


There's a huge difference between not being able to make any Windows application work at all. 'Upgrade path' doesn't mean to have full binary compatibility, it means to be able to make things work on the new platform with reasonable effort.

No, you wouldn't have gotten all those games but for most software that's still getting updates the situation would have resolved itself by now.

Despite the games issue that'd still be a lot better than what we have now: If you want to make desktop apps, you still have to do it the old fashioned way, if you want to make touch-centric apps, you are restricted to a toy UI that's useless for serious stuff - not to mention that it requires the least liked Windows version ever -, and you also got distribution restrictions along with it. Combined with Microsoft simply being too late it was a disaster just waiting to happen.

Winter

I think this is a good impression of the joys of the Windows 8 Metro interface.

https://www.eviscerati.org/comics/comic/hd/2013/01/Excess-Real-Estate

WonTheLottery

@Siasa
"With Safari it's not possible today to control the web apps one by one and choose exactly what to install or uninstall while not risking uninstalling everything if the browser is cleaned. "

Here's a very simple tutorial to help you understand Safari: http://www.wikihow.com/Remove-Website-Data-from-Safari-in-iOS

With Android Chrome is only available to manufacturers that license Google's Play Services, that's why there's an alternative cut-down browser on Android. If an Android device can access the Play Store it also gets Chrome, therefore users that can get native apps from the app store can also run web apps in Chrome.


"Amazon account is not good enough simply because it can't reach practically all the app content there is."

App content is dependent on the app not the payment method.

Siasa

@WTL

As your links says, working offline and removing the data is not easy enough and it can not replace the native apps in the current form it has. It's simply not going to work if it must be done from there. The right way to do it would be clicking the name or the icon of the web app and then removing the data from that way. You suggestion also doesn't prevent removing all the applications by accident if the browser is cleaned.

The native apps is the only way to do that well enough at the same time when 95-98% of the smartphones out there can be targeted. It's also clear that you don't even know the exact schedule when this will change. The current way of doing that is simply not good enough.

You can't pay any app with the Amazon method. Currently you can pay pretty much any app with either Google Play or with iTunes account. That makes those two superior compared to the Amazon account when purchasing apps is in question. Buying something else is a different matter.

RottenApple

@Siasa:

You repeat yourself. But it's pointless to constantly pointing out today's limitations when discussing tomorrow's developments.

You also have no clue how much of a financial drag native app development is. That alone will steer things towards web apps sooner or later.

Constantly repeating 'but today...' is not going to change this.

Siasa

@RA

I'm repeating myself because WTL is also repeating himself. Today it's not possible to replace the native apps with web apps since the web apps clearly can't do everything the native apps can do. In short the web apps can't be controlled that easily as the native apps, they can't access today the device features as the native apps can and they can't work on offline as well. At least not on iOS and that makes then to target less than 95-98% market share the native apps can reach.

This will change in the future but no one has been able to tell when this will change. WTL seems to think that it has already changed but this is clearly the case. He can't even tell us how the web apps can access text messages on both Android and iOS.

As long as no one can say when this will change it's better to do native apps since that already allows reaching 95-98% on the smartphones. This is a question not you or WTL has been able to answer. Just saying that it will change is worthless and has absolutely no value since the change will of course happen. What would have value would be knowing when will this happen. It has not yet happened. When will it happen? Can you answer that or do you keep repeating only that it will happen? That's known by everyone. When it will happen is not.

nabeel

Hello dear,
Apple & Black Berry when come on lunching so generate a new & big create home in smart phone & cell

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