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« Humanity are the data wells that make the black gold of the 21st Century | Main | Elop 25 Million Dollar Golden Handshake for Destroying the Company - How Could This Happen at Nokia (analysis and speculation) - Tomi plays detective again »

September 23, 2013

Comments

AndThisWillBeToo

@Moron_95_IQ
Congrats on your apt naming. I'm sure you will next tell us why you - Tomi T. Ahonen - did not use your own name while commenting?
If you say you have access to IP addresses of the posters, you have also access to Op side of Tomi's blog and that makes you either Tomi T. Ahonen or Alan Moore.

And if you had read thus blog for few years like mist if us, you would know that leebase & Baron95 have their own views that just happen to be closer to each other than anyone else commenting here. Their texts are so much different that your claim on them being same person has two possible outcomes.
1) Baron/leebase has severe schizophrenia.
2) You're a moron.
When in doubt, I bet on stupidity.

Baron_95_IQ

Hi, I'm moron95/leebaseless, I get paid to post marketing BS from my favorite fruity company. I'm an iFruitcake with a superiority complex because I know everything in mobile tech is invented in the US West Coast. I also own stock in crApple so I hype it up until the stock reaches $1000/share. iThanks iYou.

Baron_95_IQ

AndThisWillBeToo is moron95/lessbaseless as well. Lulz.

AndThisWillBeToo

Thanks Moron_95_IQ for the longer and more entertaining comment.
Thanks Baron_95_IQ for a good laugh.
Too bad all these recent comments will be deleted.

hduty

@Baron95
I never mentioned anything differing views. leebase very rarely backs up anything he says with arguments, he just posts a lot but doesn't say anything worthwhile for the debate here.

Note how he hasn't addressed any of Elop's decisions from the two point of views in my last post. And again, note how he doesn't explain how something can be "prejudice" when it has been fulfilled, as predicted by many. Instead he justs spits out the word, thinking it'll slip by unnoticed, and he does that constantly.

That's not dissent, but simply trolling, and shouldn't be allowed on any board.

MikaA

Elm, yeah, it is sort of interesting that there still is no official investigation going on. But we simply don't know what kind of deals have been done, most of the Finns are not Nokia shareholders' and its the shareholders responsibility to keep the executive branch of the company in check. A lot of people think that American shareholders forced Nokia board to switch to more US centric strategy, or face sacking from their side. But I have to say those Finns that DO own Nokia shares, well, have not been amused.

But yes, it is embarrassing that no investigation has been launched, but about the Finnish court I can't say I'd be surprised. They cannot get even the Customs to behave, and most likely lack experience in investigating an international company. A lot of bad deals have gone unpunished for a time, like Sonera buying worth of billions UMTS permits in Germany (you know how it ended: nobody was sacked or investigated) - or paper companies buying Consolidated Papers in US and making a loss of a couple of billions (and you guessed it - nobody was sacked or investigated).

And what it comes to Nokia, they did have technology way before other players. It's just that they didn't roll those out due to management decisions. I'd say mobile technology has actually been relatively stagnant on the hardware development for some time now and Jolla might actually break free from that. Whether it makes it successful, we will see. But I certainly hope so.

And what it comes to superior US mobile technology, the pragmatic Finnish comment is: let's talk about that when the iPhone gets a functional antenna - I like being able to receive calls or data packages further than 1 km from the closest link tower (and yes that's an exaggeration, but both N9 or Lumia 925 had no problems with the same operator). Or function in temperatures below 0 C. Otherwise it's just a very expensive paper weight around these parts of the world - ecosystem or not.

Yeah, I apologize about being stingy today, but the point of above is to bring into attention that the reason why Nokia ends up like this is mainly because US West Coast has money to buy it. Nevertheless I do note that for some reason the same West Coast did not get the mobile phone first, even though they would have been in a relatively good position to do it. US has quite a bit of research in radio wave technology and electronics miniaturization, but still did not originate this. The other part of the equation is cooperation between various areas of technology and not having to afraid of getting stabbed in the back.

Baron_95_IQ__leebaseless_

Typical crApple playbook taking points repeated ad nauseam. If you can't compete on anything else, fall back on nebulous things like "app store ecosystem", "user experience", "high-society fashion", etc.

Spawn

@grouch

I was refering to this part:

> While Nokia was stuck on Symbian, it was no threat to WP8's (and therefore, MS's) future

Back then Symbian was even the threat number 1 since it was number 1 mobile platform and ecosystem. More so Nokia was about to transition this, decouple it from the underlying platform. Imagine what that means. Nokia could shift its ecosystem, from Symbian to Maemo/Meego to Android to ... That, independence of the platform, is a real threat to Microsoft which's business model is platform lockin.

Image Nokia could, in little time to market, adopt for example Android and add "its own" ecosystem on top. Today Android is huge, has the biggest and most valuable (in terms of value) new technology ecosystem but back then, Android+Symbian, eat that. Even more worse, Qt and Android are free, open for competition to incoperate. Prepare for rivers of tears from redmond while there competition parties there Linux stacks. In such a world a Symbian, a QNX or a iOS would be all in since Qt is on all of them plus Android. WP-only goodbye.

Yet while Microsoft reached its goals to kill its strongest competition, Symbian, and its raising competition, Meego, it still lost everythin all along. Android knocked them out once and forever. Microsoft wasted time and money fighting off Nokia but failed with Google and dragged Nokia down with it.

I question that Microsoft wouldn't have been better done if they have had spend all the billions of $ wasted on that Nokia takeover-kill on there products, on there software. Aborting CE, not bridgin the own desktop-ecosystem, the Kin/Zune/Surface accidents, Silverlight and a new UI stack every 6 months, misserable, worst, failure after failure, year after year. It seems they are still caught in a 90' mindset and role-model and still not figurer out how to execute product-competition.

@Paul Ionescu

> Do you still remember when Microsoft and Nokia announced there they were strategic partners

Nokia had strategic partnerships with any firm known and some unknown. In the case of Microsoft it was about Office for Symbian.

> It looks like the Elop coming to Nokia was just a natural evolution

That exactly not. First Elop was an absolute outsider.
Second even outside of the industry Nokia was in.
Theird Elop never did anything in that industry, not even close related.
Forth Elop had no track-record as CEO (Bosten Chicken he bankrupted, Macromedia was sold 3 months after he became CEO (no record), that's it, no other CEO roles).
Fifth first non finn and first Nokia CEO with a special "you get more money if you sell off our most valuable parts" footnote in his contract.
And so on and on (read Tomi's blogs).

No, Elop was the most worst candidate. You can be absolute surr he will never become a CEO again. Ballmer naming him as candidate is, well, a PR-gag cover-action, not more. No, that guy is still the worst CEO of all times except you plan do destroy a company. There he had a track-record and now is indeed the worlds best candidate for such a position.

A natural evolution? I think yes, he was the best candidate for what he did.

> the role of JO in whole this Microsoft & Nokia & Elop affair.

As an outsider it looks for me like the fight was lost when Elop got picked. Certain shareholders may have played a special role.

@e_lm_70

> This "WHO", are the 3 mayor American funds, Dodge, Capital and Morgan

Nailed.

Still they must have been able to successful influence majority of the Nokia BOD. Money, pressure via person-details sponsored by NSA, ... I am gonna make him an offer he cannot refuse.

@The Recusant

> He was brought in supposedly to fix the problems with "execution"

And he executed Nokia. Operation successful, client dead.

@Baron95

Samsung Android is number one. Go read wikipedia what Samsung is and where they are located. Its interesting!

RottenApple

@leebase and Baron95:

One little correction. MeeGo did not crash. It was never given a chance.
I don't know how to judge Bada, though. Evidence suggests that it performed exactly like Samsung wanted, i.e. as a safeguard in case Android fails. That said, I heard from some developers that technologocally it was quite immature as a development platform which may have helped in preventing it from attaining higher market share.
On the other hand, MeeGo looked like a mature product, with a nice and attractive UI and a company behind it that had significant market power - which it just chose not to use.

You two again act like utter ignorants. How often have we told you that the market in 2010 was not the same as today?

Android didn't win because it was so great, it only won because none of the big players fought against it.
Tomi repeatedly stated how much bigger Nokia still was in 2010 than both Apple and Samsung, despite not having a competetive system. Nokia was popular - people were buying Nokia not because it was that good but because of brand recognition - not unlike Apple is these days. Imagine such a company having a popular high end product in their portfolio. Just like Americans went batshit crazy over the iPhone the same would have happened with the N9, had Nokia really pushed it and had they not made their previous announcement of intentional self destruction.

But no, only American made stuff from the west coast is good. Seriously, how dumb do you think we non-Americans are?
The one thing that's abundantly clear to me is that you two are so deadlocked in American mentality that you'll never be able to understand other markets and always try to make them fit into how the US tick - i.e. instant failure in analysis.

Baron_95_IQ__leebaseless_

Moron95 is a classic paid sockpuppet spewing the same RDF straight from the crApple marketing department. I seriously hope you do get paid for your efforts since you won't be getting any profits from your crApple stock that you bough at $400, lulz.

crizh

@Baron95

" Elop successfully cut the disgustingly bloated Nokia work force and costs."

Rubbish.

If that is an example of the credibility of the facts you base your arguments on I think I can safely ignore the rest of what you have to say.

In Elop's first full year in charge Nokia's workforce went UP 3.7%.

In the next year it went down 16.3%. Unfortunately he only managed to cut the wages bill 4.3%. Average salaries actually went UP!?

So overall he managed to reduce the number of employees by 13.2% and INCREASED the wages bill by 2.7%!

What a success.

MikaA

Actually, what I said about the iPhone transmitter performance is true. iPhone is simply worse than Samsung or Nokia on what it comes to connection reliability here. Your experience may vary, I'm just saying what I'm seeing. So, when I'm buying a communication device, the first thing I expect it that I'm able to talk with it - and due to relatively harsh conditions around here, it needs to be reliable. Otherwise it is utterly useless to me - actually worse, it is dead weight. That is why transmitter and receiver functionality are important to me. None of the eco-system thinking matters if you cannot connect to it in the first place.

Basically using your analogy, I'd be buying a Porsche without an engine. So please don't try to justify why I should buy something just because some majority somewhere does it. And yes, I'm saying that I don't consider anything on the markets truly smart phone. They are still a bit further in the future. All the current retail experience is worth nil to me if the thing doesn't do what it's supposed to do. And come to think of it, I haven't needed a single app to my smart phone (pre-installed ones have been more than enough), and apparently neither do my colleagues. So yes, it's a bit strange to confess something like that here, but the things I'd like to have (and pay for) in the smart phone would require a major disruption from the current eco-system centric world :)

Given the recent burning Apple battery chargers here, we did a brief check on the engineering quality of the chargers. Let me say that before Finland was part of EU and Finnish regulation of electronics testing was in place, it would not have been possible to sell the Apple charger here - however, I fully acknowledge our legislation was much stricter than pretty much anywhere else. This is the basic reason why Nokia chargers were large.

It came to my mind that a part of other things in Nokia saga can be explained from this perspective too. A Finnish perspective is different on what it comes to using apps in a smart(?)phone: Why would you want to use small screen in your mobile phone or tablet if you have a computer available? Yes, I know it sounds ridiculous to you, but let me explain a bit further.

When I have been travelling in Europe, considerably more people spend more time sitting in public transportation to travel between work and home. This is considered as wasted time, and they want to use it to something. That's where you get the rise of smart phones and mobile internet connectivity. Meanwhile, there's only one area in Finland where you encounter a condition like that - otherwise you use the applications you listed from your home computer and use a much larger screen for movies and games. For this reason, a Finn will think that instead of using smart phone, one's personal interest would be better served by moving closer to work or perhaps towards a better connection point. Additionally, there are physiological reasons why the small screen isn't that great ergonomically, and this includes both the smart phones and the tablets. This might explain partially why Nokia was slow on the roll-out.

Additionally, nowadays it is considered impolite to use your smartphone during a conference dinner here and neglect others by doing so. It's sort of strange to get offended elsewhere when people do that. But different cultures, different rules.

Final note. What do you these three things mean:
* Valve announces SteamOS, Linux variant of an operating system
* AMD promises Linux driver improvements
* NVidia says they'll help to develop better Linux drivers

I'd say this doesn't look good for Microsoft

Tomi T Ahonen

I AM SORRY !!!!

To all in this thread

I was cleaning the comments (we've had a lot of spam last few days) and accidentially deleted a set of about 6-7 comments that were legitimate !! comments left yesterday - long comments by our regular people, from about 80th comments in this series. I DIDN'T MEAN TO DELETE THEM

I am SO SORRY. I clicked the wrong button, unfortunately they can't be recovered. I did not mean to delete them, please feel free to repost, if you had left a comment in this thread yesterday and find it has been removed. You'll probably notice a few other comments right before and after yours were also removed.

Tomi Ahonen :-)

Robert Atkins


Nokia wants to cut Elop's bonus in half to reduce outcry in Finland, Elop said he can't do that, his wife is already planning on half the $25M in divorce settlement.

Story gets better by the day.

Tomi T Ahonen

A couple of comments in response

To Mf - thanks, I appreciate it. Please remember, this is not a professional news site even thought we get - gosh, over a million visits per year and have already more than 34,000 comments posted by readers over the past 8 years. I am a professional consultant, analyst and author for the mobile industry, most of my time is spent at customer consulting jobs or in airplanes getting there. This blog is a hobby for me, I write here in my spare time and have no advertising nor registration for the blog.

I appreciate that my rants about Elop can seen annoying or personal or vicious. They weren't so to begin with. I first supported Elop, until he started to destroy the company we love. I was probably the first to notice those errors and write about them in public, so I have had over 2.5 years to grow my anger - as Elop kept damaging Nokia and didn't stop and was not fired. Please bear that in mind, I have seen this wreck happening but been powerless to stop it.

Then one last thing, this is a 'blog' so its my feelings also, my online diary, in the true meaning of 'web log'. This blog does not pretend to be a news site. As my personal views, you have to accept my personal writing style - and my sense of humor. Same with my Twitter feed. So yes, if you can't see the justification for my anger and that this blog is just that, a blog - then obviously you are not the audience I am writing to. Those of my readers who followed this saga for 2.5 years, can see I have been BY FAR the most accurate analyst of what really was happening at Nokia, right from the start. Never once fooled by Elop or the Microsoft bullshit generators..

Tomi Ahonen :-)

Tomi T Ahonen

Oh, to all reading this thread

I just posted an update to the story. I tried to set the facts we now know - the bizarre contract clause of the 25 million dollars - into the world of 2010, re-visited the industry in that time, what must have been on the minds of Elop and the Board, to see how that clause came to being - who said what and when - and what its impact was since. You may enjoy that blog too. Its pure speculation by me, about how can Nokia Board agree to that weird contract clause.

Tomi Ahonen :-)

Tomi T Ahonen

More comments

foo - (on timing of contract) the bonus outlining the 25 million dollar jackpot was in the original contract signed 2010. Note the follow-up blog I wrote to this article today, deals with that history

So Vatar - (on Board approving terms) - I agree with your points but, but I see a third option, that the Board saw the contract terms as not even plausible, they could safely agree to points 1 and 2 (as requested by Elop), as long as Nokia added point 3 as their guarantee that Elop cannot 'steal' the value from Nokia by this contract. Read my follow-up blog and consider that scenario, lets discuss this there in the comments. Yes, if this was the primary part of the contract, seems like the Board was stupid, but if this was last-minute item to land reluctant-Elop as the CEO, and the Board was convinced, once Elop sees how strong Nokia is, this scenario can never come to be.

As to Board collusion - during summer 2010 - not possible. Someone would have leaked it, remember there were Board member departures etc. And then the terms would not be this restrictive and specific. The Board MAY have become to collude with Elop after the damage started to happen, the first profit warning in 2011, and from there - maybe they decided, ok, this is going to implode, we could fire Elop and he's already set our house on fire, or we can let him secretly pursue the Microsoft sale, if so, we can all get rich in the process... I could see collusion from 2011 but not from 2010

Tomi Ahonen :-)

Tomi T Ahonen

Baron95

On the leading indicator market trends point. Ok, Baron, thanks, we are finally having an intelligent discussion haha..

Good points. I can safely also grant you most in that comment. Its very reasonable to say that what happens in the US and Western European markets will then follow into the rest of the world, in almost any tech, including smartphones.

It is not the only way. Clearly we also see failures of this pattern - the Hummer car is the poster child of this. While achieving leadership in US and Europe, it is no guarantee that is the way to win the world. Nokia was very well aware of this, and had studied those emerging world markets deeply and providing targeted devices with very well focused regional issues - longer battery life where electricity supply is not reliable, microSD card slots for data transfers were data networks are slow or expensive, dual SIM card slots etc.

The world market was changing just in that period you mention, 2010-2011, the world shifted from most smartphones sold in the Western countries to most smartphones sold in the Emerging World, the transtion point was year 2012. We've had that argument here many times, that the iPhone as originally conceived (current model iPhone 5S) is not suited for mass market appeal in the Emerging World. And you know, Apple's response, the 5C is partially in acknowledgement of that point, except that I've argued, it is not cheap enough to achieve Apple's aims.

So with the 'how to win the world' we have to wait. Its such a shame that the 'total opposite' approach to Apple, Nokia (Symbian/MeeGo/Meltemi) - no longer exists. We have Samsung doing somewhat Nokia's old strategy but not to that degree. Would have been an interesting case study.

Tomi Ahonen :-)

Tomi T Ahonen

(I love my readers..)

To khim responding to Baron95 - PERFECT RESPONSE. I don't have to add a word.

To Baron95 about could Nokia out-execute Samsung or Google. Yes obviously it could. And we have tons of facts to prove it. The performance of Nokia 2008-2010 has to be taken in context. It was the worst economic disaster of our lifetimes. All others of Nokia traditional full-portfolio handset makers were in trouble and reported losses in their handset units. Several died out of that recession - Motorola, Palm, Ericsson's handset business out of the SonyEricsson partnership etc. Nokia - not only reported strong profits every single quarter of that recession in its handset units - but Nokia bought out the Symbian partners, and totally reset the 'not created for touch screen' Symbian OS to be a totally competitive touch screen system by spring of 2011. Not as good as Apple's iPhone but on par with Android and far better than anything from Blackberry or Windows.

During the 2008-2010 recession, ALL of Nokia's traditional full-portfolio handset maker rivals made major layoffs in their handset business. Nokia made token layoffs only. This was the Nokia way, they looked after their staff. That company stood on a massive war chest of cash - cash - accumulated even during the worst economic crisis of our lifetimes. Yes, Nokia was often slow - but Nokia took every case where rivals got there first - cameraphones, 3G, whatever, and Nokia mastered it and blasted the competition and did this with the best profits.

Now, Apple made far bigger profits than Nokia, yes. Apple only served the rich niche market with a luxury product. If that strategy is Porsche, then Nokia was Toyota. Porsche makes far bigger profits per car, and as a corporation, but Toyota has typically been one of the most profitable car makers every year (except its recent problems with brakes). Thats the difference of mass market leader and niche provider. They are not direct competitors. You - Baron95 - should compare Nokia 2010 to other full portfolio handset makers, Samsung, Motorola, LG, Huawei, SonyEricsson etc - not Apple a niche provider that sold 4% of the world's phones at the time (and sells only 8% today).

Tomi Ahonen :-)

Tomi T Ahonen

More comments

Jamie - haha, OPK was an angel compared to Elop. True. Yes, OPK was fired for failing to continue Nokia's incredible run of success. It was a close call, should he have been fired then, or was he perhaps steering Nokia through a very rough patch and doing it reasonably well. If OPK had remained for one more year - with the N8 released in Q4, the E7 released in Q1 and the first MeeGo device (N9-00) ready for release in Q1 - Nokia would have been massively profitable by June 2011 - and never entertained a thought of Windows. The N9 would have been the second MeeGo device, OPK would have rushed the N950 also for sale etc...

Now that we can compare OPK to Elop - the worst CEO of all time - yes, the disappointing OPK was 25 million times better haha.. That was however, a perfectly defendable call by the Nokia Board in 2010, OPK was seen as failing, Nokia share price was in free-fall, Nokia reported its first quarterly loss in a decade and Nokia's triple-A rating (AAA) had for the first time in this millenmium been downgraded to AA. And OPK promised to win back the USA, he did't. So with that, yes, the Board - no doubt reluctantly - fired him and then went to find someone totally opposite of OPK. Not clumsy in front of TV, but who makes great TV interviews. Not a Finn but a North American. Not a telecoms dude but a software guy. (also not trustworthy but a total creep)

Tomi Ahonen :-)

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