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April 10, 2013


Timo M

Well Hansu, many things are "so bad" about WP and Win 8 at the moment. Let's see:

-WP8 does not sell
-because it does not sell, it will kill Nokia
-Win 8 sales are underperforming badly, which connects to WP8

Those are the very, very important reasons. Microsoft slavery squeezed life out of the finest company in mobile business and we no longer have great business phones from Nokia, just very bad ones.

For WP8 some of the more important shortcomings are:

-No profiles. I cannot change to meeting profile, which is in my DNA when I go to a meeting.
-No week view in calendar.
-It cannot play Microsoft's own .wmv files(!)
-Calendar location does not connect to Nokia maps in Lumia 820
-Only one calendar event is shown in the tile.
-Emails are not shown in the tile.
-Text messages are not shown in the live tile.
-Text messages cannot be sent from computer.
-No backup on a computer is possible(!)
-No Lotus Notes app.
-No file manager.
-No phone-wide search tool!
-No voice memo tool.
-No support for wireless keyboard.
-No bloody VPN!

I used my smartphone so that I put meetings on my calendar with a location and drove to the meeting using the navigator. At the meeting I put the phone to a meeting profile. After the meeting one glance at the phone showed new calls, emails and text messages. Then I was off to another meeting. I left myself voice memos when I was driving the car.

Sometimes I got a call and I had no idea what it was about and then I searched my formidable database of the old Symbian phone with a basic search tool and suddenly remembered what the phone call was about.

At the office I sent short text messages to my contacts from a computer. On the road I used Nokia wireless keyboard for emails etc. if they were longer than few sentences.

So I cannot use calendar, navigator, keyboard, email, search, VPN (the list would go on) anywhere near the same level as with my previous smart phone E7. Not with this dumbphone.

See? Nothing special. Very basic business use without the need for hip apps and services is absolutely impossible with WP8.

It is silky smooth, I give the system that. It is a great web browser and Kindle reader. All else just is not there!


@ vladkr I have to disagree on life cycle cause Microsoft still support way longer their OS versions than android, true android updates itself alot faster with new versions coming out every 10 minutes, Bluetooth probably right on that, the little I have used it seems to work ok. Folders yes that is true but then again Meego didn't allow foldering either but you can just move your live tiles all into one place like I have one for social one for news one for games etc all in their own corners and sizes. The live tile individual color scheme hmm intresting never gave it much thought I just click on the Message tile or on the message when it pops. I'l give you number 3, number how do you mean photo settings like when taking a picture exposure, ISO, White Balance or do mean editing the picture after it has been taken and the rotations work just fine don't really care how it rotates as long as it just rotates. I would like to say that I do not like the fact that Bing is the default search and you can not change it when you press the search button it autmatically goes to Bing and searches the web and there is no universal search that searches both internet and the system that is annoying sometimes and you cant change it it's stuck on bing. I put google as a shortcut tile.


@ Timo M I'l give you on that I dont work in enterprise and you are right but why did Coca Cola and Macy's take it up as their phone for their workers? but yes the E7 is a good enterprise phone, brilliant even but Nokia never had any problems in making good phones for business users that was only thing apart from the camera that the old symbian system was good for, but emails and text messages depends on which size of tile you are using and the profiles yeah I just use the volume button but yes


Meego allowed foldering after PR.1.2

Photo on WP : No resolution setting, no OIS (on/off) setting


@vladkr ok I stand corrected on Meego but the OIS in the 920 is a mechanical system and why would you want to turn it off?



That MKM research also say bb in troble. And now bloomberg also say bb in trouble

“The U.S. launch of the Z10 started poorly and weakened significantly as the days passed,” Joseph Fersedi, an analyst at ITG Investment Research, said today in a note, citing information from independent dealers. Some U.S. retailers are seeing a significant increase in customers returning their Z10s because they find the interface unintuitive, Detwiler Fenton & Co. said today.
“In several cases, returns are now exceeding sales, a phenomenon we have never seen before,” Detwiler Fenton said.



Even if it's true, the real test for Blackberry will be the keyboard-based Q10. If that one also fails, then they are in trouble.


Tomi you're one lucky guy.



To be honest, it's all about the pricing and how these company valued their product.

Nokia & Microsoft think that the top of the line wp8 (was wp7) were on the same league as top of the line android. This is the huge mistake. Android to of the line device have better specs and customer also don't like the metro UI. Therefore, lumia series should be price accordingly.

This is the same thing as in bb. From what i read, bb still think that q10 should be as expensive as z10. I don't think q10 sales will be as good as what bb expect with this pricing.


Let me add 2 more shortcomings of WP8.

1. No way to monitor data usage in the os. The only app able to monitor data usage is 'Data Sense' released by MS to carriers only and the it is up to carriers whether they want to distribute to their users.

2. No way to block calls.

Can you imagine a modern smartphone incapable of the above? No wonder WP8 market share lingers at 3%. It's just rubbish.


@Tomi: any comment on this:
Would he be better CEO for Nokia than the current one?



LUCKY man! Hands on experience to be shared! :-)

Tom Gorr

My main issue with WP was always the first impression. I remember the day Elop sold the new strategy to the finns in the Nokia House cafe, the strategy that basically told them you are out of jobs, sw is in the hands of MS now.

My boss came to us that afternoon, apologetically trying to look positive, go-go attitude in the surface, at the very least in the words, and handed us a current WP phone from a competition.

First impression: Beta version of some upcoming, platform. Now, they still look like it. Retro, but not a retro I would like to see. We were not impressed. He got fired soon after, out team dispersed, some of us offered WP positions. We all turned them down. We wanted to work for Nokia that has some independence on its decisions, and working with MS? None of us wanted that.

People are simple. They like complexity. They like colours, cool logos and functionality, added to simplicity. That was already invented by Apple and Google. MS went too far with it. UI is just plain horrid. It looks like a warehouse full of same coloured boxes, or a program to teach babies basic shapes or colours.

As long as they host Skype, have few apps, remind people about Windows in the very name of the product, Windows we all have suffered for decades and show people a modern artwork, trying to convince it is cool, they will fail.


@Tom Gorr:

>> remind people about Windows in the very name of the product, Windows we all have suffered for decades

Better forget that 'hate'. Most people don't have any aversion against Windows - of course against the Windows we have been known for almost 20 years.

The real problem is - the new interface is not what Windows is about for most of its users. That's why it's so disliked not only on phones and tablets but also on desktop-Windows 8.

The Windows 8 hate on desktop must be staggering. No matter where you go to read an article about it, the comments are full of hate and anger. And this just can't be talked away as some geeks. Nearly everybody voicing an opinion hates it and it's far too frequent, far too regular and far too much. These comment sections get just flooded with hate opinions.

And then the same UI gets offered on their phone OS? One doesn't really have to be good at math to draw some conclusions about the system's success.

Nobody who got screwed by Windows 8 on desktop will ever voluntarily buy a Windows phone.

>> People are simple. They like complexity. They like colours, cool logos and functionality, added to simplicity. That was already invented by Apple and Google. MS went too far with it. UI is just plain horrid. It looks like a warehouse full of same coloured boxes, or a program to teach babies basic shapes or colours.

That seems to sum it up pretty nicely. There's just a reflex-like reaction to that tile interface that makes me shudder. I wouldn't call it badly designed but it sure doesn't look appealing. Every Android phone, every iPhone makes a far more positive impression on first sight. Same for desktop vs. start screen. There's just something about the design that makes many people react negatively.
MS will never be able to overcome this unless they redesign their UI while actually listening to customer and beta tester feedback. With Ballmer at the helm I do not see that happening though.


@Hansu ?

Why would I turn the OIS off ? Because of its presence, the 920 tends to rise exposure times by night (instead of setting ISO or exposure better); the OIS prevents shakes and moves from the photographer, but not from the subject, who can move, and that's a problem (as Nokia marketed the 920 for night shots).

OIS can also be uncomfortable for some video situations.

If you look at reflex cameras, if they have OIS, it's always offered to turn it off.



> Whis is WP provided by so many top firms to their staff?

The answer is simple, "nobody got fired for buying IBM". The IT department of a large firm is a place where managers can progress to the top by not taking risks - so they tend to become "married" to one IT supplier that everything is entrusted to.

When IBM dropped the ball with OS/2+PS/2, that "safe choice" became Microsoft (though in some places it is still IBM) - and therefore if the IT dept makes the phone platform decision, the decision will often be for Microsoft (though Blackberry is still strong here).

There are signs of a shift from "nobody got fired for buying Microsoft" to Google as safe-choice vendor - not yet in the really big firms I think, but now my children's school is teaching them Google docs instead of MS Office.

This is not to say that any of these mega IT suppliers is any better or worse than the others, but to give an insight into the mindset of those in these dinosaur IT departments that make the buying decisions.

And in other words, these guys buy IT gear for reasons that are largely unconnected to its technical merits. If you have any doubts, ask me about the process of buying a mainframe "ethernet card" in 1990.



> Microsoft still support way longer their OS versions than android

Factual incorrect. Even latest Android supports all API-levels down to first Android version. That was when Microsoft still made CE. WP8 doesn't support CE API's any longer. Heck, WP8 not even supports the Windows8 standard win32 API!

> Meego didn't allow foldering either

It did with PR1.1 and even with 1.0, so from the beginning, with an external app.

> why did Coca Cola and Macy's take it up as their phone for their workers

They did not. The Coca Cola story was for example a PR gag. Coca Cola Vietnam, 150 people, got free Lumia from Nokia. Coca Cola played no single $. The Coca Cola Vietnam branch and ONLY that branch. That's how PR works: "Coca Cola switches to Lucia" haha


> 'Data Sense'

Data Sense also only works in the US...


> There's just something about the design that makes many people react negatively.

That's the concept. Metro, a rush through to reach another place. Its the way, not the goal. Home-screen, that's what describes our personal computers, our gadgets, our electronically always present homes and places to be. Who likes to live in a Metro? Be home in a Metro?

The whole design philosophies behind WP8 is not a home. Its not smooth, clean, ambiente, relaxed. Its sharp, cries, over-simplied to rush, run to some other place.

That concept isn't new. Have a look inside your nearest McDonals or BurgerKing. Compare that with a real restaurant. Metro is fast-food. Not to enjoy but to rush. And it doesn't even offer good Burgers (apps).


> therefore if the IT dept makes the phone platform decision, the decision will often be for Microsoft

Reality proves that wrong. On mobile/consumer/busineaa devices its Android and Apple. The numbers can't be more clear gat its NOT microsoft.


@Hansu: >>nothing has changed except the fact that the belowed start menu icon is gone and if people would bother to take an xtra 2 min of downloading a third party start menu they would have an OS that they loved.

Your view is twisted:

First and foremost, when I install Windows on my PC I do not want to download 3rd-party-apps to make the OS usable.

It has to be usable from the start, otherwise I dislike it from the start.

Secondly, a Windows PC used to be a machine for getting work done.

And for this core requirement Metro is totally unsuited:

Want to do MS office? Switch to the desktop!

Want to have a calculater which does not fill the whole screen (so you do not see the numbers you want to calculte and have to switch between fullscreen-apps all the time)? Switch to the desktop!

Want to have a maill program where you can have open two mails at the same time and copy text from one to each other? Install a desktop mail client!

I am old enough to remember Windows 1.0. With this one, you could have multiple windows open (hence the name!), but you coudn't have windows which overlapped.

This is more functionality than Metro!

Do you see the problem now? When I want to do serious stuff, I cannot use the Metro UI period.

So why should I have to deal with this fullscreen pseudo start menu which wants to lure me into downloading fullscreen apps which I do not need or want?

Why should I try to hit invisible buttons with the mouse? Why should I want to simulate swipe gestures with the mouse?

Hence if Apple had released such an abomination of an OS, it would have received the same amount of hate - or even more.

As others already have stated, Metro is rightfully hated on the PC, and this fact does not raise attraction for other Metro-equipped devices.


Chairman of the Board of Nokia will never kick Elop out, never. So sad but true.

The guy holding the position is a Microsoft-man from the beginnings.
He is still the main owner of F-Secure, an anti-virus company.

This is one of the clever moves that Microsoft made during the takeover. Chairman of the board of Nokia is a guy who earned his fortune and status by co-operation with Microsoft. He is an anti-virus man. Virus means Windows as you know.

How in earth could he say a word that makes Microsoft nervous? He would ruin all he done.


Risto, the situation is a checkmate but you have some balls , don't you. Show us some balls!

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