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« We passed 4 million lifetime visits to this blog over weekend - thank you to readers | Main | The Annual Mobile Industry Numbers and Stats Blog - Yep, this year we will hit the Mobile Moment.. »

March 01, 2013

Comments

JP

http://m.seekingalpha.com/article/1241121

That proves the theory that operators just milk Microkia...

khim

@Spawn: Yes, they went all in with WP and lost. That's how gambling works but now how a proper company strategy should look like.

So very true. Because.

@John Phamlore: Nokia's problem is that they simply failed to bet on the winning technology of the future LTE.

Yes, Nokia went with WiMax and failed. BUT! Samsung ALSO was a huge WiMax supporter:
http://www.wirelessweek.com/news/2007/02/samsung-shows-way-wimax-handsets

And it CONTINUED to support it even when it failed:
http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/07/sprint-wimax-samsung-galaxy-s-ii-spotted-at-the-fcc/

But of course Sumsaung ALSO kept LTE efforts and when WiMax failed it was able to offer LTE, too.

And the same with Android, WindowsPhone, Bada, Tizen, whatever: Samsung does not burn bridges while Nokia was increasingly more gambling company. Why? Why company which produces bazillion handsets will, nonetheless, abandon whole sectors (as it turned out later SUCCESSFUL sectors)? Just Why?

That's just crazy - and it happened before Elop, he just went to the logic conclusion with this mad strategy.

Lasko

On a short note: Nokia has just been thrown out of the Euro-Stoxx-50 (and EADS got in); it no longer counts as one of the most valueable companies of Europe.

Prepare for another dive.

Henrik

@Henrik Nergard The "If they make Android devices it will just be one manufactor in the jungle with Samsung, HTC, Sony etc.."

I see that a lot when people defending why Nokia picked WP and not Android.
But with MS you really are one of many. All looks the same OS wise. You are not allowed to change anything.
On Android you can make your custom skin and become unique. Yes there are a Love/Hate relation for the differece skins on Android. But that is one of the thinks that make and HTC, Samsung, Sony, Huawei, LG, Motorola, etc. Android devices not just "one of many"

WP. It's hard to see what the difference are from buying a HTC WP8 or Nokia WP8 phone in the same end of the line up.
The only difference are
1) The price.
2) The color of the cover.
3) Is it says Nokia og HTC on the cover.

So as I see it. Making WP then you really are just one of many

Winter

@JP
http://m.seekingalpha.com/article/1241121

Nokia marketing in China is mirored in the rest of the world, see the comments.


I cannot explain such behavior except when there really is no demand.

Lasko

@Henrik Nergard

"If they make Android devices it will just be one manufactor in the jungle with Samsung, HTC, Sony etc.."

This is honestly the greatest joke I've ever heared, especially if you look at the existing Windows Phone and Android devices.

This is especially laughable as Nokia now offers it sole unique selling point, Nokia Maps or HERE as they call it now, to all Windows Phone systems, for free! So not that they all look the same and behave the same, they even now run the exact same software, made by Nokia, given away for free to all competitors.

This *is* just *ridiculous*!

JJ

@Henrik Nergard

Why would anyone like to join WP? There is only one dominant manufacturer (Nokia) that takes 70% of sales plus gets special advantages from Microsoft top of that.

Lasko

Not even remotely.

Nokia indeed is the largest contributor to Windows Phone in terms of market share and funcionality (eg. HERE), but by far the smallest beneficiary. Microsoft sucks out way more license fees then of any other partner (way more), has dropped Nokia as launch partner (now HTC and ZTE), as marketing partner (now Samsung), as development partner (new Samsung, for example native code options for Windows Phone 7).

That's a typical Microsoft partnership. Give everything and die.

Tester

Judging from Microsoft's behavior it seems quite clear that Nokia seriously failed to deliver in their 'partnership'.

Why else would Microsoft be looking elsewhere? If they could have done it with Nokia I think they would have, instead of relying on Android manufacturers right now - which can't be this easily extorted.

Although little is being mentioned in the press I cannot imagine these companies doing it for free - if they support a system with such low market share and invest work there, someone has to pay for it - and that really can only be Microsoft. And it's also clear that any deals these companies made are magnitudes better than what Nokia got.

Lasko

@Jojo

Well, and a lot of people are getting tired of the "Windows Phone becomes a major player (~20%)" comments.

What about you sharing your opinion on why this would happen - instead of just claiming this bold sentence.

chithanh

@JP @Winter
It seems that someone at seekingalpha didn't like the Nokia doom-and-gloom article. They now published two more articles titled "Nokia Is On The Rise" and "Why Microsoft Will Dominate The Smartphone Space: Its Android OS Cash Cow". The latter sourcing its information from rumours and hearsay...

Nzt 48

Hey tomi, I was curious, do you have any data of dumb->smart? Which country is leading? Which country is STILL on the dumb phone and not changing!

Winter

@chithanh
The story seems to be:
- "Its Android OS Cash Cow"
MS as the ultimate Patent Troll! It seems that the current trend away from SD card slots is a way to avoid MS patent extortion. It shows that there is no protection against bad (patent) laws combined with bad standards.

- "Nokia on the rise"
This we hear since 2010. Nokia will rise because it this time, MS will not destroy its partner. Really, promise. This time it will be different.

cycnus

@Winter

The new Nokia mantra were:
* Lumia on the rise
* (thus...) Nokia made a profit in Q4 2012

Winter


HP's $170 Android Tablet Is Devastating News For Microsoft
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hps-170-android-tablet-devastating-141101095.html

HP, just announced plans to sell a $170 7-inch Android tablet in April. That's less than the cost of the Amazon Kindle Fire HD and Google's Nexus 7, both based on Android, and both of which sell for $199. It's less than Apple's $329 iPad Mini.

Most importantly for this story, it's significantly less than the $650 HP charges for its Windows-based ElitePad, which is geared more towards enterprise customers.

Tester

@Winter:

>> - "Nokia on the rise"

Now that Symbian is gone for good, Nokia will inevitably rise. It can't go much lower than where they are.

The big question is not whether they will rise again, but how quickly. And there it doesn't look good - despite some incompetent forecasts in business news.

chithanh

Eldar Murtazin had something to say too when confronted with that kind of articles:
http://www.mobile-review.com/articles/2013/birulki-214.shtml
«Человек, который возглавил Nokia, занимается сегодня не развитием компании, а ее уничтожением в пользу Microsoft. Планомерным, методичным уничтожением.»
Google Translation:
"The man who headed Nokia, today is not engaged in the development of the company, and its destruction in favor of Microsoft. Planned, methodical destruction."

Marc Aurel

@ cycnus


I am very well aware of the common definitions. The question is not whether Asha Touch are smart phones according to common "wisdom", but instead I wanted to question the common definitions, because they don't seem to be based at any concrete criteria which would separate smart phones from feature phones. Instead the definitions seem to be historical and even completely tautological.

Tester

@Jojo:

If you make claims, you have to back them up. Otherwise be prepared to be called a troll.

As for Kantar, there's nothing new here. It has already been commented when last quarter's numbers were released. Most of the change was not now but half a year ago.

bjarneh

Jojo> I'm not writing a popular blog about mobile world, so I don't have to explain the reasons behind what I think.

that's not how a debate works Jojo.

Jojo> He has always been quick on commenting WP8 poor sales numbers, but now when it shows WP is growing, he is silent.

this is hardly the case, the percentage growth is massive since they start from a small number. there are a ton of already-obsolete-devices (Windows Phone 7 from last year) getting pushed to unknowing customers. here in Norway even the new Windows Phone 8 devices from HTC are already on 30-50% discount, they are basically the cheapest smart-phones around. this will give you some market-share, but the key here is whether or not this is sustainable/profitable.

http://www.elkjop.no/product/mobil-og-gps/mobiltelefon/HTC8SBLUE/windows-phone-8s-by-htc-smarttelefon-bla

as you can see 1895 NOK = 331 USD (at Norways largest electronics store); smart-phones with that kind of spec don't come much cheaper than that, in Norway at least...

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