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February 19, 2013

Comments

Interested to know

Microsoft must ditch Metro style before it can have any chance in mobile. Then they have to fix all the other problems in WP8.

Spawn

@Lasko

Exactly. There monopoly is gone already, there market shrinks rapid and they are not existing on any of the growing markets. On anything but desktop its like there is no Microsoft.

To expand Windows to other markets failed and that in turn prevents Office in those markets. And while that happens Office competition grows up to a time Microsoft will have a hard time to compete with there Office in those markets they boykott.

Office365 is needed but so is an Office for Android offer else they are going to lose thee both case cows at once long term. But if Office is available on competing platforms Windows has an even harder start off as competing platform.

What a dilemma.

rustyknight17

What amazes me is that Elop is still Nokia CEO , if he were running any other company , he`d be gone ! Is the Nokia BOD trying to run the company into the ground ?

cycnus

I was wondering if this the equivalent of BURNING PLATFORM... bill gates style

Tester

@Spawn:

>> What a dilemma.

Indeed. Of course it's clear that the mobile world does not need MSOffice at all. If 90% of all mobile customers can live without it, what makes them think that making it available would change matters.

If you ask me, MS has lost mobile and won't get back in. They got nothing to offer to make any kind of major impact.

Jonhy

I was wondering to myself, why Elop not been fired? maybe what I will say is stupid but, think about it. maybe nokia is sold but have not made ​​public to take advantage of the name? or microsoft buy enough shares to handle nokia? which do you think are the reasons why nokia still not fired Elop?

tm

Hi Tomi,

"...it is about what happened at Microsoft, or five things that you ought to do for Microsoft"
It's not just about current (five things) as you claim, but it's also about the past (What happened) .

"There is a lot of things like cellphones, where we didn't get out and lead very early."
"lead very early". Clearly this refers to past right? And clearly the rest of the transcript is talking about this.
Also clearly this is about 'What happened' right?


"No we didn't miss cellphones, but the way that we went about it, didn't allow us to get the leadership. So its clearly a mistake."
Whether or not it's about past or current 'it is still clearly a mistake'.

Using words like 'didn't', 'went' it's pointing to something not current.
Either there is now new strategy we haven't yet heard about or he talks about past.

But based on few lines earlier I think it's about past :)

Now personally I agree that the current strategy is failing, but I just don't agree how you interpret what Bill Gates was saying.

You probably call me out as MS troll panicking or delete whole post. It's up to you of course, but all I'm saying is that I don't agree with your interpretation
and trying explain why.

Pekka Perkeles

It's funny to realize how it's not us - end users - who really matter.

It's the carriers. Haha.

When someone hates Skype, like carriers, they won't offer cell phones that can use Skype. Haha.

When someone - as an end-user - likes a cell phone, it does not matter. Because it's the carrier who decides. Haha.

However, if a certain manufacturer has a poor history of providing interesting products, it can't be successful in the future. Haha.

Spawn

@tm

> Also clearly this is about 'What happened' right?

What happened and what STILL happens. Its not only today but also yesterday like WP7 was day before yesterday and WP8 got just introduced yesterday. Clearly the past. But also the present since that failed strategy, that mistake is still present and did not got changed today. Its also about the future up to the moment Microsoft does change that current and past strategy to the new future strategy.

That's the point. Some claim Bill only spoke about CE or about post Nokia. That's clearly not the case. Today WP has lesser market share, lesser partners, lesser support, lesser customers then ever before. WP is last ecosystem, is not leading anything. The failure is ongoing.

@Tester

> If 90% of all mobile customers can live without it, what makes them think that making it available would change matters.

Because 10% is better then 0% and even 1% is. This is a growing profitable market and they are missing the market like there products would not exist. Cash burning.

SPQR

"And the recent hiring of Android competence to Nokia."

Tomi, I missed this news. Do you have a link handy? Many thanks for your commentary, I always enjoy it.

Spawn

@Pekka Perkeles

There are so many dump customers who buy what marketing, sales gives them. That gives you some marketshare at least even if your product isn't on top. But WP even fails that with a marketing-invasion. Try get into a shop and ask the sales what they offer. Its not WP.

Compare Win95 with OS/2 and you know how it works. There is far more then the product and only a percentage of customers cares or knows how to care. Just see how much still stick with Windows desktop, even with Vista or Metro, unbelievable.

N900

I don't quite get what's the point to this news. Grabbing 2% market share after such big investments is naturally a "failure". I don't see, how Bill Gates could have spoke differently about it.

But the point you are making, Tomi, is something completely different. You claim that not only the current situation of WP is bad, but that also its future prospects are non existent. I don't find any of that in Bill Gates' comments. So you can't make the point, that he has admitted that WP has no future. Bill Gates admits, that the strategy hasn't worked YET. He didn't say, that Microsoft is now scrapping its mobile bussiness.

You might have to wait a little longer till that happens..

Hans Hellström

@cycnus.i.cant.post That is true but you have to remebmer that nokia is not apple. Apple can sell the consumer a plate of chicken shit designed by Jony Ive(who stole his designs from Dieter Rams but that's another story) and put a 600usd price tag and people will que up and buy it. Like the antenna gate or the maps fiasco and all others. It doesen't matter in the apple world. I had an army buddy of mine fom a couple of years back and he had been an die hard iPhone supporter from day one....and every time a new one came or it broke and to this fall he has owned 9 iphones but he got fed up when the last one said kaputt and now he is a happy Lumia 920 owner belive it or not. Point is WP8 is not a success but and Elop isn't going to win any CEO of the year awards in the future who knows, anyway Nokia had to change course Symbian was great for developing worlds but it was an analog system jury rigged for the digital world it had limitations but it would served well in the developing world but it would have not qut it the long run against android. MeeGo yes brilliant but no ecosystem whatsoever and in smartpohone ecosystem is 75% the rest is hardware. What will happen with Nokia only time will tell. For one thing I am excited to se what they are going to bring up at MWC 2013. Modified quote by a Gordon Gekko: Competition is good, compettion cleares the air, competition is right the consumer is the loser if windows drops out from the phone market. That will give Apple, Android and Samsung almost complete leverage of the market as they almost have then why should thy then care about us if there is no competition.

AtTheBottomOfTheHilton

The reason that Windows Phone has failed is simply because it's half baked, a half serious attempt not near the achievement of biggest competitors. The 100 faults (probably more now) of Windows Phone that was posted earlier on this blog clearly shows how Microsoft couldn't create or understand how to make a descent mobile OS. Now with Windows Phone 8 many of these deficiencies still exist.

Also the design of the OS is awful, it's so ugly you simply want to move on. The tiles are a terrible idea and really annoying. Microsoft wanted your desktop look like a Wall Street bill board, flashing and moving but honestly how many want to stare at that.

Microsoft tried to copy Apple which failed utterly and is completely against what Windows is really about. It's about backwards compatibility and myriad of applications. With Windows Phone they threw that away completely.

I'd say they should have done the other way around, let their desktop move into the phone instead than infesting Windows 8 with their ugly interface. Windows Mobile was an attempt of that but they didn't get far. Windows Mobile was essentially Win32 for phones. They should have continued on that path and create an interface where Windows users would feel at home on the Phone and you could have many of benefits that you have on a desktop. Why not windows on a phone? I mean graphical Windows, is there a law that phone apps must be full screen? Screens are 1280x720 today and it could have worked. There is already an attempt which is called XPPhone and I must say that Phone is much more desirable than Windows Phone.

Steve Ballmer has run the company into the ground. Tomi says fire Elop, I'd say fire Ballmer because with him Microsoft will go into the ground.

tz

I don't think it was Skype as such - What you are saying is if Microsoft never bought Skype (or would sell it tomorrow) everyone would be going for Windows Phone, and it would be competitive.

Skype is available for iOS and Android, probably others.

1. Nokia was the fair haired boy and I think the other manufacturers (including tablets) got pushed aside. A monoculture is NOT an ecosystem.
2. This while Elop was alienating carriers by doing everything else wrong.
3. The Win Phone 7 can't be upgraded to Win Phone 8 problem. How many dead ends?

I would add that there are Android media players and other devices but no Win 8 "Zune".

Win Phone 8 has multiple fatal wounds - Skype was definitely a deep one and hit an artery, but the others would have proved as fatal.

One last parting shot - Microsoft has a few valuable properties, Office and Xbox come to mind, but the latter it looks like they are trying to damage with more lock-down (can't resell games). Office might be around as a format, but iCloud and Google Drive allow collaboration - Office 365 might but can you use it on your Android (or iOS) device? Not a good choice, open the ecosystem and you lose the rest of your monopoly. Keep it locked and it drips away slowly.

chithanh

@Hans Hellström
The carriers and manufacturers want competition in the OS market, because it is to their benefit. That is why they have assembled around Tizen. That is why they allow niche players like Mozilla FirefoxOS and Jolla Sailfish to exist. That is why they didn't kill Blackberry even though the BBM was eating into their profits.

So even if Windows Phone drops out (unlikely as long as Microsoft is still profitable as a whole), competition will still be there.

Cristian Radu

@Tester

Well, if the mobile world doesn't need office apps, then mobile world will never replace desktops/notebooks I guess. Because people will continue to work in offices doing office work. If the mobile world doesn't have anything to do with office work than the smartphones aren't anything more than the feature phones from 10 years ago.

Microsoft monopoly is shrinking (as a Windows installed base I guess) because people that previously used desktops from certain tasks, they don't need them anymore for those specific tasks. Which tasks specifically? Your thesis is that these tasks are office related. I don't agree. I think that the tasks are entertainment related: games/movies/news; office work continues to be the realm of the desktops/notebooks and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future (due to the plugged-in nature required for heavy computational tasks).

So, what's the relevance of all this? Well, there's the office/business space market and the entertainment consumption market. In the office/business market Microsoft still has a monopoly and there isn't any competitive alternative from the big names yet. In the entertainment consumption market, well, there's fierce competition and everybody wants a piece: Sony/Google/Microsoft/Nokia/Valve/Amazon/Apple/etc all promote their services, be it music/movies/games/maps/books/etc.
In this market the fight isn't over, it's just heating up this year. And I don't think there will be single winner. There isn't and won't be a single company that will offer the best of everything.

Lasko

"No we didn't miss cellphones, but the way that we went about it, didn't allow us to get the leadership. So its clearly a mistake."

If something didn't work in the past or in the present, if something was and is even a 'clear mistake', why should it out of sudden work in the future.

I'm quite sorry, everyone saying that 'he just mentioned the past, not the future' is at the same level of insanity as Elop is.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

So if the strategy has utterly failed in the past, is utterly failing in the present - why on earth should it *not* fail in the future?

albert

1. No one has ever successfully partnered with MS. It is a death sentence.

2. Boards of directors are a joke nowadays, just look at MS, Oracle, Apple, HP, and the financial sector. The only way to rein corporate excess is through shareholder actions, and today, there are few mega-corps that have enough concentrated blocks of stockholders, who could do anything but yell (or sue).

3. @sysad is certainly correct. Gates is where the buck stops. Don't expect him to own it, when Ballmer falls on his sword.

4. Windows and Office are culturally ingrained in the business sector. Windows 8, and the rent-a-app policy are dangerous ploys for MS. Business users of MS Windows and Office are by no means MS fanboys. "We just want something that works", as one IT manager put it. As MS becomes more and more irrelevant, the possibility of real competition in the business space increases. MSs weak security and slow bug fixes don't help matters.

a

Cristian Radu

@Lasko


It could work in the future because it's not an OS problem but a management problem. They didn't assign effort and resources where it would have mattered: getting rapid OS updates/apps and getting the devices in the consumer's hands (through carriers and better manufacturing logistics).

Many people here seem to focus on feelings. I hate Microsoft, I hate Elop, I don't like Metro, etc. I don't think the average consumer cares about this. They just want to consume their entertainment time, be it games, music or social. I've tried all major mobile OSes, they all have strengths and weaknesses, there isn't one which is the best and I bet Ubuntu or Tizen are equally competent. There were even better mobile OSes in the past (webOS) but they all fail because of bad platform management, not because the OS had any significant problem.

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