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« In Forecasting Racket, you win some, you lose some - Talouselama in Finland mocks me for my 'Nokia to be sold within weeks' comment | Main | Brief Notes from Smartphone Bloodbath Battlefield in Year Three: Digital Jamboree »

December 07, 2012

Comments

Wayne Borean

@John Waclawsky

Comparing Windows 8 to Microsoft Bob is an insult to Microsoft Bob, a program that at least sold on its own merits. Or lack of merits... You buy a new PC, you don't have the choice of avoiding Windows.

In addition to the site you listed which has copies of the Iowa Consumer case filings, I strongly suggest you check out:

http://Groklaw.net

http://techrights.org

For an illustrated history of Microsoft, check out:

https://www.eviscerati.org/comics/comic/hd

Make sure you aren't drinking when you visit the last link, it's a keyboard destroyer. Go right to the start and read the entire thing. You'll love "Nifty Doorways"

As to the Microsloth Trolls, get used to them. Microsoft actually pays some of them. Seriously. So logic means nothing to them.

FYI, I actually met a guy who wanted to buy a Windows RT tablet. No, I'm not sure he's sane.

Wayne

cycnus

@vladkr

"Bigger screen is not necessarily better; for many people, a smartphone that doesn't fit in a pocket is useless."

I agree that bigger is NOT ALWAYS better. But if you're not in the US, if you were in HK, China, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. You'll witness the rise of large big smartphone. Starting from 5" US$ 200 huawei up to US$ 700 Galaxy Note II.

I'm not saying that with this giant screen, all small screen death, but Apple stubbornness of producing only 1 phone model is killing apple opportunity to grab more market. Apple will got more market with 2 size or 3 size of phone.

AC

@Baron95

"Remember, to this day, you can't get the iPhone on China Mobile, DoCoMo, T-Mobile USA, Indian Operators, etc, etc, etc. So those operators absolutely line up 100% behind Android."

May be you don't know Indian market. Operator sell service, not phone. You can buy phone from anywhere and get a sim from operator. Apple tried to sell and they do sell in india. Just no one buys the high priced crap. They tried to sell through Airtel, still no one bought it. Incase you don't know, Airtel is twice the size of Verizon and has 250 million subscribers.

John Waclawsky

@Wayne Borean,

I know about Groklaw and Techrights. They are two excellent web sites. I also agree about the Microsoft paid trolls. I bet there is AT LEAST ONE on this site. ...and you are aware that multiple shills sometimes use the same id. They don't want us spreading the TRUTH that NO ONE WANTS A WINDOWS PHONE

Eurofan

John Waclawsky: You are only marginally easier to stand than a Microsoft shill. Your capitalized slogans are the most wearisome part but your accusations of others being shills or astroturfers detracts from your postings as well. Until you came along Tomi's blog was free of astroturfers as far as I could tell.

Baron95 has been posting for as long as I have read the blog and I guess before that. His arguments from the beginning was that Nokia needed to join an ecosystem in order to survive the coming consolidation in the smart phone industry and Microsoft had deep pockets and a plan to offer a unified ecosystem. I don't think Baron95 took into consideration that there is little intrinsic demand for a Microsoft powered smart phone and that drumming up such a demand might be an impossible mission, in other words, that MS's brand was poison to consumer products, or that MS would continually build clunky, not enjoyable software.

I think Tomi has convinced most of us that Nokia was in a good position at the beginning of 2011 to start a smartphone transition to Meego and to try to improve its Ovi store and maps and whatever ecosystem Nokia could wield. I for one don't see why this wasn't the logical choice, accepting that Nokia's expenses in this effort were perhaps higher than industry standard. At least there would be revenues to back those expenses up. And the N8 showed that there is a ready community of Nokia enthusiasts willing to buy the most expensive Nokia just as there are Apple enthusiasts willing to pay someone to stand in line for them when phones come out.

Baron95 simply assumed Microsoft would be competent to make an smartphone OS because software is what they do. Baron argued this on many occasions. This doesn't make him a MS shill. He is an analyst with an investment mindset and saw Nokia in decline, or sinking, and Meego too expensive in development and supported by too meager a ecosystem.

It's all so sad. The saddest part will be if you populate the comment section of Tomi's blog with accusations and capitalized slogans. It reminds me of reading a Trotskiest broadsheet, which I used to do in college. Its wearisome. What would you have us do, ban everyone who doesn't agree with you? Please know at least one reader, me, really regrets your style of commenting. The comments sections of Tomi's blog used to be one of the last good comment sections in the blogisphere.

Lu in Florida

"So you think that money is the root of all evil? ... Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or the looters who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil? ... Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into bread you need to survive tomorrow. ... Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values ... Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked: 'Account Overdrawn.'" Stated by Francisco d'Anconia, a pivotal character in "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand.

kdt

I think Tomi is missing it. Just because *Android* may prevail doesn't mean *Google* will prevail. Android is being customized by companies that are not using any Google services. The most popular Android tablet in the U.S. is the Kindle Fire. The Fire doesn't use any Google services. The Chinese brand Android derivatives are also not using Google services.

baron96.therealbaron.baron95.sucks

@baron95

welcome back bro.
we thought that we lost you.
You really need to show who's the boss around here.
Apperantly this blog owner love low standard living.

baron96.therealbaron.baron95.sucks

@duke

Everyone want a windows phone. The android crowd just too cheapskate and only want free stuff. They don't have the courage to buy something and then buy an apps.

World is full of this lowlife who only want to give phone manufacture $5 - $10 profit.

bjarneh

Nokia kills billing for the N9 in China.

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=hZ8jzTiR


@Baron95

you are right that Apple has success with premium/mass market, but it's not comparable to Porche selling more than VW, a Porche is 5-10 times more expensive.

and you can get too exclusive; Apple should know, they have been there before. in the 90's the Machintosh was a premium brand, but they got so premium that only a few designers were willing to spend the extra money to get a better looking computer (and RISC architecture), and Bill Gates had to loan them money to save the company.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxOp5mBY9IY

i think the biggest mistake Apple is doing is to make their own version of popular programs (maps,browser ..etc), and to throw the competition out of the app-store. how likely is it that anyone would invest in serious software-development for the iOS if something like this can happen? Android/Google is sort of doing the same, but people can at least install third party programs with less fiddle than on iOS.

Spawn

@John Waclawsky

> I also agree about the Microsoft paid trolls. I bet there is AT LEAST ONE on this site.

You would wonder how much of them are not even proper payed. They just defend there investment. There are quit some developers/users/customers left which only know about Microsoft software and there they build up some kind of knowledge. They have huge fear that that knowledge is rendered nothing worth cause its.Microsoft only knowledge. Such ppl defend, no attack, any other OS to protect there personal investment. The fear among those that bound there carrier to Microsoft is huge. They are not willing to break through and expand there knowledge to other platforms like iOS or Android. They post here and everywhere else to spread one message: They are still there and there investment is not lost yet!

For those trolls its a personal attack that other platforms are there cause they cannot compete, cause they note they are losing. Over time it became lesser cause the clever ones juwt expanded there knowledge but the die-hard oldies not willing to learn became more vocal, more noisy, cry louder. You see this phenomen on this blog. Its only one blguy, baron95, and judging from his writing still and content he IS a windows-oldie.
His logic is simple: Neither Android nor iOS are the winners. They bith decline (may it be profit, market share, services, internet, developer-story, whatever) and while they all decline Microsoft slowly raises and long-term wins. They cannot and will not accept that Microsoft may lost that game cause it means THEY lost that game too.

Its a very natural instinct to protect your investment, your money income. Combine that with not being willing to keep on learning, of certain fear of competition and of losing there self-image of being "a professional in the IT field" and you know why they cannot accept certain facts. Its there own brain protecting them from facts, from anything they fear. Its there own brain that shows them various arguments reality isn't true and that only there own believe is. They believe in those, spread them cause for them its all logical.

@Eurofan

> simply assumed Microsoft would be competent to make an smartphone OS because software is what they do

Come on. Even those of us who believed the same beginning of 2011 learned that it just isn't. Lates now we KNOW this is not true. It did not work and never will.

Its so visible, it could hardley become more visible then now with even there power-horse, the Windows Desktop including Office on ARM, just failed.
They played all cards and lost, two times (WP7 and WP8 or even more times if you count SurfaceRT, Kin, etc in), huge.

Latest now if you still not see that then other mechanisms are in place to not let you see it.
I not think its money. I think its fear.

JohanM

Well, the president of Finland bought Nokia shares at the time when the share price was at its lowest level during the summer months. He is a member of the Finland's leading conservative party Kokoomus.

Prime minister and the leading police officers come from the same party. Most probably the chief editors of the major papers and the boss of the public broadcasting company YLE are from the same party. Also the head of the security police is from the Kokoomus party.

Thus there will be no Pulitzer prize winner from Finland.


It is uncertain which party the state prosecutors are from!

vladkr

@JohanM: "Well, the president of Finland bought Nokia shares at the time when the share price was at its lowest level during the summer months"

Is it why he invited Elop to the Independence gala, although he clearly doesn't deserve it ?

Tester

@Baron95:

>> So now iOS users have ... Google Maps that is better than Android.

And you wouldn't think that Android will get that, too? Of course with the current situation the iOS version had to have priority

>> But the iPhone 5 is %649-$849 in the US. Android Galaxy S2 is $199.00 (all unlocked). So iPhone is 4-5 times more expensive than a mainstream Android phone.

Don't compare apples with peanuts. If you want to do price comparisons, use the Android flagships, not the one year old device that should be compared with the iPhone 4. Same old game as usual. Twisting the numbers to make Android look bad. And again failing!

RyanZA

@Baron95

Google was always happy to have turn-by-turn directions inside iOS as long as Apple let them brand it as 'Google Maps' and have the app send location tracking information to Google servers. Apple refused to do this and wasted millions on their own maps.

Google has now released a standalone Google Maps app that is fully Google branded and transmits iOS location data directly to Google whenever it is used. So Google got exactly what they asked for in the first place, and Apple got to spend millions on something that only annoyed their customers.

And you talk about Google wasting money on Android? Give me a break...

PS. You're comparing the iPhone 5 to the Galaxy S2? WTF. No comment, I'm sure nobody reading this blog is stupid enough to fall for that one, they all know about the Galaxy S3.

Eurofan

RyanZA and Tester: Did you guys see the Wall Street Journal's treatment of Nokia's attempt to provide maps services to Apple phones? Essentially Nokia's attempt to provide a map app is a total failure.

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2012/12/13/nokia-maps-didnt-find-route-to-iphone-success/

How can Nokia screw up maps? Somehow it did. Elop's Nokia.

Lasko

@Baron95

"Why did Google do that? Because they saw the threat of losing all the 300M iOS devices and their Map searches."

Lose? To what? To the native Apple Maps app? Don't be ridiculous! Every single iOS 6 user is kissing Google's feet for bringing Google Maps back to iOS.


You still haven't answered the question, whether you still support your statement that the only reason someone is not buying the most expensive product is obviously because he cannot afford i, and that this is a non-debatable fact.

Tester

Here's another take on the maps issue:

Maybe Apple caved in and let Google do its thing because there was a real threat that iOS users were defecting to Android. I consider that far more likely. In other words: Apple needs to be careful. They can't act like the Holy Master which is always correct anymore. Now there's some genuine competition.

bjarneh

@Baron95

Baron95> Apple did their own update to Maps with turn by turn. But did not exclude anyone.

ok, i was under the impression they excluded Google-maps to push Apple-maps on the iPhone, i could be mistaken. but i know that Apple has legal-fine-print that makes it impossible to compete directly with them, i.e. if they want your business, they can just take it.

i'm Norwegian, and there were tons of articles about how Opera could get access to the app-store with Opera-mini, since it could be considered in competition with the Safari web-browser a few years back. they got around it by not supporting HTML directly, and by only rendering stuff that had been compressed to some other format first on their servers etc..

Baron95> Porsche is not 5-10 times more expensive.

i'm Norwegian, here it pretty much is, car-taxes in Norway are insane though, the most expensive Porche's in Norway are about 80% tax. i.e. you have to be some weird socialist-capitalist-combo to buy one :-)


Baron95> A Porsche Cayenne is about 20% more expensive than the near exact VW car Tuareg or the Toyota car LX560.

to quote Mick Dundee: "That's not a knife" :-)

Spawn

Apple makes more money then Google with its app-store.
Google makes more money then Applw with its internet-services.
So what?

The comments to this entry are closed.

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    Tomi Ahonen is a bestselling author whose twelve books on mobile have already been referenced in over 100 books by his peers. Rated the most influential expert in mobile by Forbes in December 2011, Tomi speaks regularly at conferences doing about 20 public speakerships annually. With over 250 public speaking engagements, Tomi been seen by a cumulative audience of over 100,000 people on all six inhabited continents. The former Nokia executive has run a consulting practise on digital convergence, interactive media, engagement marketing, high tech and next generation mobile. Tomi is currently based out of Helsinki but supports Fortune 500 sized companies across the globe. His reference client list includes Axiata, Bank of America, BBC, BNP Paribas, China Mobile, Emap, Ericsson, Google, Hewlett-Packard, HSBC, IBM, Intel, LG, MTS, Nokia, NTT DoCoMo, Ogilvy, Orange, RIM, Sanomamedia, Telenor, TeliaSonera, Three, Tigo, Vodafone, etc. To see his full bio and his books, visit www.tomiahonen.com Tomi Ahonen lectures at Oxford University's short courses on next generation mobile and digital convergence. Follow him on Twitter as @tomiahonen. Tomi also has a Facebook and Linked In page under his own name. He is available for consulting, speaking engagements and as expert witness, please write to tomi (at) tomiahonen (dot) com

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