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September 05, 2012

Comments

m

It doesn't matter what specs old Nokia phones had. They've been killed and Lumia no longer has to compete with them. Elop and gang should face criminal charges but that's beside the point for Nokia's future --- it won't bring them back from the brink of collapse.

The 920 seems to have a decent camera. It could push Lumia to the head of the pack in *one* feature at least. We'll have to wait to see what the other new phones are like this season, and for reviewer comparisons. I'm so used to Elop chasing after last year's competition that I'm surprised by this.

People may choose the 920 over an ATIV because:
- They want a better camera (low light, image stabilization).
- People who want WP8 are often Android haters who may also be Samsung haters.
Other people may choose ATIV because:
- Removable battery.
- Micro SD port.
- Will probably be cheaper.

So I think that Nokia has a fair shot at a decent share of the WP market. I think it remains to be seen whether WP8 on a whole will succeed or not. I think it's a long shot, but I don't think the 920 is already a failure on its own. If MS can change popular opinion to "WP is no longer hated" and "WP can compete with other OSes" then Nokia might still have a hope of eking out a meagre survival.

tl;dr Elop's failures have probably already ruined Nokia, but today's announcements don't make it worse. Note: the stock plunge suggests that investors disagree, but I already had low expectations for Nokia and they exceeded those low low expectations.

vladkr

I have few comments about all this :

- Nokia 808 PV = 41mpix, Lumia 920 = 8.something mpix : where's the Wow effect Nokia promised to Samsung and to us ?

- Lumia 920 and Samsung ATIV characteristics are quite similar, is it due to OS limitations ?

- when looking at the event's re-transcription, Stephen Elop doesn't seem to be sure about his answers (will the new Lumia come to China, what will be available there and there)... is he the Boss or just Nokia's janitor ? To me a CEO should be aware of his company's plans, and show some strength and confidence (to partners), especially during such a turbulent time.

- if the new devices were revealed today in NYC, what will Nokia show to partners in Helsinki at the end of the month ? The same phones everyone knows (and is already disappointed) about ? How will the partners appreciate that ?

vladkr

Last comment (sorry for the double-post, my memory fails sometimes) :

Have you noticed there is no Finn anymore at Nokia to demonstrate cellphones ?

Me

At least the 820 has a microSD card slot... I hope it works... I hope the bluetooth works...
I cannot believe I ended up questioning the usability of nokias' bluetooth in 2012, something taken for granted since... ever.
I cannot believe I have to go to a store and actually try the damn thing just to be sure...
This is madness.

Hoista

You need to update the chart - 808 Pureview does support NFC

Poifan

Where is the low end? I don't think this one conference dictates all Nokia releases for the rest of the year. Like Samsung last week, Motorola today, and Amazon tomorrow everyone is trying to get their new high end devices and innovations announced before getting swamped by next weeks iPhone announcements. These phones are clearly targeted for the U.S. and EU markets (hence the NY morning release). I assume a low end device for emerging markets would be announced from a more global venue and given that low end smartphones are usually yesterday's specs, probably with less fanfare.

ChrisD

Tomi,

For the China smartphone market... take a look at http://thenextweb.com/google/2012/09/06/android-breaks-past-80-smartphone-market-share-china-apple-nokia-pick-scraps/

tl;dr: Android 82.8%, iOS and Symbian 6% each, WM + WP about 2% (hard to tell from the chart, but WM+WP and another OS share the remaining 5.2%, and the other OS is about 2x as much).

J.O. Aho

Just made a fast read, but I didn't see you mention that Samsung was out with it's WP8 phone news earlier than Nokia and IMHO that caused Nokias announcement to be less exciting as they ain't first with WP8 (not that I personally care about WP8).

zlutor

@vladkr: "Have you noticed there is no Finn anymore at Nokia to demonstrate cellphones ?" - to be more precise no Finns to demonstrate Lumia phones...

Have all guys joined Jolla already? ;-)

BTW. It should not matter. What really matters is that presenters were - well, you have seen them...
I think they just screwed the whole event. Telling the truth I was almost not able to recall any major feature/spec of the devices at the end...

Jo Harlow and the Belfiore guy was just simple boring but Kevin?! OMG...

Eeeh, look at the share price - it tells everything...

Tomi, will there be any immediate consequences? (http://www.4-traders.com/NOKIA-OYJ-1412498/news/Shareholder-Frustration-Grows-Over-Nokia-14487885/)

On the other hand, what could they do? Fire Elop? So what then? 2012 is lost for any change, I guess...
Maybe Nokia could buy Jolla... ;-)

prn

Thanks for the great post!

Well, their mediocre presentation will largely be forgotten on the 12th of September. I'm no Apple fan, but the announcement of the new iPhone will put the updated Lumias is the shadows: competing hardware and sooner availability. I'm guessing that Apple will ship their product much, much sooner than Nokia. Nokia has been getting far to easy off with "announce now, ship in six months". Hell, their first dual sim (C2) was at least a year late.

Hardware, one glaring omission is off course the lack of storage expansion on their flagship and no HDMI output. Put a N8 on a HDMI enabled screen, wireless USB- keyboard/Mouse and one have a decent mediaplayer. Hardware wise, these are a disappointment.

On the software- side, I don't see Windows Phone 8 adding anything new witch either Android or IOS already does.

Tomi. This post was a good read. The Old-Nokia vs New-Nokia was a good point of view. They seems to have trouble with competing with their past products.

Regards prn

DS

The phones are clearly aimed at the US (their added value services only work there) and smartphone begginer market (for people that can't gasp the concept of blutooth and hdmi). But this simply doesn't correstpond to the phone size or price. So to whom is this phone targeted to? Clueless rich people that only care anout status? Doesn't Iphone occupy that niche already? Early adopter market is clearly dissapointed with range of features WP8 has caught up to.
The fratures they got right imo are:
-The camera - if they really get the best in class results then some distinctive moniker us justified, still they are wasting the breakthroug technology from 808. 902 may be not enough to soldify absolute nokia domination in mobile photography. I still hope another proper Pureview handset will be released.
- Resolution, esp. horizontal. 902 has now the biggest hor. resolution of any phone except org. Galaxy Note. Owning it i can tell you a few pixels here can really make a difference making portrait web browsing practical.
They have outdone Galaxy Note 2 here!
- They scalado photo apps are nice indeed. The WP concept to enable plugins for builtin photo app is very sensible as well. I hope Android adopts it in next version.

Sebastian

I am sorry, but you are becoming very annoying, what is worst; your comments are becoming very biased.

Let´s start with this, I agree with you that Elop is a fiasco, I agree with you that the new Nokia phones will not overtake the SIII or the iPhone 5, but I don´t think it will be because a bad hardware, it will be because of Windows Phone low adoption rate.

Just to be clear, I used to be a Nokia and Symbian fan, started with the 3650 and ended with the horrible N97, now I am a very happy iPhone user, and for sure my next phone will be the iPhone 5, not the Lumia 920...but in a world without iphone I choose the 920 everyday before an android phone.

Let´s take a look at what you wrote:

*** So we get two new Lumia smartphones by Nokia that run Windows Phone 8 (the four older Lumia models are now totally obsoleted, 'Osborned' in fact, as they are not compatible and cannot be upgraded from Windows Phone 7.5 to 8.0).

Please, let me ask you, when a Symbian phone was upgraded to the new OS version?? When I had the E71 (FP1) Nokia announced Feature Pack 2, the message was very clear, "you asshole want FP2, no problem, trash your E71 and buy an E72" And we are talking about Feature Packs, no new OS releases, however you wrote a billion times that Symbian was (and in fact was) the market leader.
Conclusion; the crappy Symbian upgrade policy never affected sales, why is now an issue for you? (how many android phones will never see Jelly Bean, and they sold like hot cakes?)

*** This is a mid-range premium smartphone by specs, not a superphone.

Are you sure? It uses the same processor, memory and storage than the Galaxy III, it has an smaller screen but with better DPI (in line with the "Retina"), has a better camera, has NFC, has Qi, only loses with the SD card/HDMI out. In many aspects will be superior than the iPhone 5, I really doubt that the iPhone 5 will get NFC or Qi and for the camera if the leaked models are real being so thin it will imposible even for Apple to put a much improved camera (Sony 13MP sensors needs more room so for sure are discarded)

*** is only now catching up to that 'obsolete' ecosystem of Ovi Store and Symbian

You really must be kidding, Ovi Store was (at least the last time I checked) a pathetic fiasco where unscrupulous "developers" were trying to sell themes, ringtones and wallpapers for 1, 3 or 5 dollars. Took 100 apps and 85 were themes and wallpapers. Windows Phone has only 100K apps, but most of them are infinitely superior than crappy symbian apps.

*** Facebooking, Twittering, SMS texting and emailing - then the lack of QWERTY will drive you to rival smarpthones.

You are getting old man, did you lately check RIM´s marketshare?? Did you lately see Samsung, Apple, HTC, LG, Motorola or Sony launching QWERTY superphones??? Even RIM understood this and ditch the keyboard in their lastest prototypes...Want a keyboard? Buy a dumbphone, a notebook, or hey, even the lastest Microsoft tablet, why not?

*** So far Elop has brought us six new Lumia devices. Each of them is a similar i-Phon-a-Clone - very very similar form factor close clones of the iPhone.

Elop is an asshole and we agree, but this is not a fair statement, the only current devices that are not trying to be iPhones are the Lumias and the Sonys, even Apple´s attorneys at the trial (vs Samsung) showed a Lumia saying that it is possible to develop a smartphone without copying the iPhone. So Lumias are different enough for Apple but not for you...?

*** This is what came from the Communicator line, and we saw in recent Nokia touch-screen hybrid smartphones like the N900 (on Maemo), the E7 (on Symbian) and the N950 (on MeeGo).

Again, you are getting old, nobody, trust me NOBODY besides you want communicators, I work for one of the very BIGS and we do a lot of market research, trying to sell a Communicator today is as easy as trying to sell a Casio Calculator watch. Blackberrys (no touchscreens) killed the communicators, and touchscreens killed Blackberrys.

I really enjoy some of your posts, but sometimes you need to calm down, drink a coffee and smoke a cigarette before starting to write.

Denis

You can listen Elop words about China in Nokia webcast
http://www.nokia.com/global/about-nokia/webcast/live/

anobserver

Tomi asks:

"Why? Why why why why why?"

Commenters have pinpointed the reasons:

"Have you noticed there is no Finn anymore at Nokia to demonstrate cellphones ?"

"He is also, typical for many Canadians, obsessed with US markets. Nothing else matters."

"The phones are clearly aimed at the US"

Nokia has been taken over by North Americans with a provincial perspective of the phone market, and is committed to the strategy of a North American firm (Microsoft). Institutional know-how about international markets is being lost, market requirements not in line with what happens in the USA are being disregarded, products not designed and engineered in the USA are pushed aside.

Naikon

@anobserver
Lumias are _not_ designed and engineered in the USA.
Well known fact is that Lumias are designed and engineered and made in China.
Lumia 820 is so close to Xiaomi Mi-Two, I believe both was designed by the same team.
920 keeps original N9 lankku design, but that's it.

foo

@Tomi "Then we have yet another bizarre statistic just out this week from Nokia. They said that Nokia had sold a cumulative 7 million Lumia smartphones since launch last year."

Just as comparison:

Google's Eric Schmidt: 1.3 million Android activations a day, 480 million devices worldwide

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/05/google-ceo-1-3-million-android-activations-a-day/

You may want to update your article with this interesting fact.

n9user

It appears that Nokia fakes sample video and images for Lumia 920.
http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_fakes_lumia_920_pureview_video_issues_an_apology_for_it-news-4765.php
http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_lumia_920_sample_images_found_to_be_fake_as_well-news-4769.php

Hahaha

zlutor

What would happen if Nokia put Android onto N920? Would it sell better?

Jack1059

They recycled the N9 design again? So this is the best they could do with their flagship? Sad really.

Ben

Have you guys seen what the N950 successor would have been?

http://mynokiablog.com/2012/09/04/leaked-prototype-nokia-lauta-rm-742-cancelled-immediate-n9-successor/

Last years cancelled product would have made a much bigger splash than anything Nokia has come up with the last six months, much less yesterday.

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