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« Winners of Summarize Ahonen Contest - Best Tweets shrinking 30,000 word monsterblog about Elop as worst CEO, into 140 characters of one Tweet | Main | Wisdom of the Tweets - another Twittercontest, now guess Lumia Q2 sales »

July 12, 2012

Comments

aikoN

Please, correct me if I’m wrong...
If
- Lumia development outsourced to Pegatron and manufacturing outsourced to Foxxcon.
- Asha manufacturing is made by Fly Mobile in India
- the rest of the Symbian support is outsourced to Accenture
- navteq is “donated” to Microsoft
then where is the Nokia?
Factories are closed, R&D centers are fired,
What else do we have? Management and marketing?

NoNameRequired

Here in Norway, our biggest telcom, Telenor, just released their June top ten sellers. To everyone's surprise, the N9 came in at ninth place and sold better than the Lumia 900 (not even in the top ten), and Lumia 800 sold only slightly better, at eight place. Telenor commented that they are going to stop selling the N9, though. The S III was the clear winner.

Jack1059

I keep coming back to the ongoing disaster at Nokia. Even though Ive tried to just write off caring about the company after the patently stupid exclusive 'partnership' with MS ended what was a great company. Its like watching a slowly unfolding train wreck. You dont want to watch, but you just cant help yourself. Add to that picture, the train driver up front not even bothering to put on the brakes and its doubly sickly fascinating. Its just one stupid / failed decision after another. And all in charge keeps whistling and merrily carrying on. I mean really. If you wrote a book two years ago with this exact scenario occurring at a company. You would have been laughed at for trying to pass off such absurdity.

zlutor

@Spawn: yes, every Windows OS is compatible with all the OLD ones - but! not all old computer is capable of running the new one. CPU, RAM requirement, certain GPU requirements for W7, etc.

And WP8 will be compatible with WP7.x - at least M$ said it will be capable of running WP7.x applications.

So, there is nothing new here. The timing of the announcement - that is the real issue...

Chipsets - yes, Qualcomm will have/has WP8 compatible chipset - are they supported by WP7.x? No? How to built them into current Lumias? Nokia had not many option when they designed the current Lumias...

NFC - yes, support can be disabled - question how important role M$ planned to it? But yes, most probably the least problematic issues...

Single core CPU - should not be big deal either. In worst case everything will be hell slow. Hopefully dual-core CPU is not required due to this reason. :-)

Screen resolution - a hard issue again. They want to limit the number of supported screen resolution. Maybe it is the real show stopper...

Anyway, I think there must be _real technical_ reason behind this restriction. It would be best interest of M$ to provide smooth update...

"It was Ballmer. He osborned Nokia" - c'mon! They are adults, why on earth will they do it without good reason? Or am I too naive? :-)

Nokia has got the info at the same day when it was published - there would be hard consequences if it were true... They must have known it long time ago...

Corey Hard

Microsoft uses Nokia as a lab just like Japanese used Chinese in the notorious Camp 731. They buy companies here and there without thinking long range consequences because all they care is trying if something works. Like a mad scientist sewing body parts together.

But, how in the hell any sane person can let it happen. It is beyond any comprehension. Of course Microsoft may have offered lets say 50 000 000 - 100 000 000 dollars for every board member, for not standing in way, when Nokia is cannibalized. They cannot refuse, right?

Robert Atkins

Anecdotal story only - I do not have European or tech connections as do so many posters here.

In my small corner of world in Central Texas, I knew only one person who carried a Nokia, and that was old flip phone model. Did she replace that w. new Lumia? No, went to Android model. I keep looking for someone using Nokia Lumia to see how they like it. Have not seen one yet in the wild. Nor any other Win7 phone.

Maybe RIM should have hired Elop away from Nokia to manage their comeback. Haha.

vladkr

@Baron95:

You seem to like to compare Windows Phone with the worst-performing protagonists... isn't it a bit too easy?

That's like comparing Kim Jong Il with Kim Il Sun and saying that under Kim Jong Il North Korean everyday life (very) slightly improved, so Kim Jong Il is a democrat.

So Windows Phone's results are good because it performs better than Bada, Meego and Symbian?

Please, compare what can be compared; what is WP budget VS Bada (it's stupid to compare with Meego or Symbian, which are discontinued) ?

vladkr

Another good news:

http://yle.fi/uutiset/wsj_nokia_closes_sales_offices_in_china/6216656

geektech

I would like to see MeeGo market share, so comming from 0 beeing a dead platform, how it perform against WP or others?

N9

@Baron95 you are the one that mentioned meego to begin with, in case you prefer harmattan/maemo6 what ever... its mathematically impossible that the growth rate of (insert your favourite name for the N9 OS) did not beet the WP growth rate under nokia lumia period... (since you like to look at pathetically small numbers to draw conclusions on the future of platforms)

zlutor

@Baron85: yes, M$ set the minimum hw requirements for WP8, I've got it. Most probably there is reason behind it, and they did not do it l'art pour l'art. I hope the reason is pure technical.

From my side there is no problem with it - it usually happens when something new is coming. Especially if the new thing offers significant improvements/leapfrog compared to its predecessor.

My real question is why did they announced it so early? Why not just introduce WP8 and say "ok, wp7.x devices will not get it but here it is the nice WP7.8 for you for free"?

"There has not been a single smartphone launched running Meego" - well, we can start arguing whether OS of N9 is MeeGo or not but let's don't do that. For majority of this audience is aware of the differences but for the sake of simplicity let's say it was MeeGo. Or, do you want to say that tne N9 is not smartphone? :-)

On the other hand Jolla Mobile promised us not one but two smartphones runing on MoeGo before end of thus year...

@Tomi: in some other blog somebody has come up with the idea that the big guy behind Jolla could be China Mobile. Any opinion on that? CEO of Jolla mentioned they are 'standing on the shoulders of a giant'. he also mentioned in some interview he regularly fly to chine in every months. So, conteos heat up! :-)

http://www.intomobile.com/2012/07/11/interview-jussi-hurmola-ceo-jollamobile-audio-and-text-available/

RussellBuckley

Hi Tomi

Realistically, if Ballmer does follow this tongue-in-cheek "advice" "Just let the mobile dream die, Ballmer, and focus on the desktop." this means the end of Microsoft. Not next week, not next year, but it will be within 5 years and maybe within 3.

Of course, that can't happen. A company as big as Microsoft can't just implode that quickly. But then, look at Nokia, or RIM or Moto. Once the Mighty begin to fall, they fall very quickly.

Russell

Corey Hard

Heed my words that Nokia is kept as a lab rat for Microsoft for cruel experiments like video rental through smartglass and game image streaming from xbox to phone.

Those ideas are born dead but, lets try for the sake of trying!

If the lab rat dies nobody cares - and on top of that we have played with the rats money so it is all good for Us (Microsoft) !

Kenny

Tomi, you may have missed the importance of Microsoft granting Huawei rights to make WP8 phones. China has the biggest smartphone market in the world and is crucial to Nokia' survival. Allowing Huawei to make WP8 phones is a deathblow to Nokia's China market. Thrown under the bus again!

So Vatar

Did you guys see this?
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Nokia-has-only-sold-330000-Lumia-devices-in-the-US_id32257

They claim that "Nokia has only sold 330,000 Lumia devices in the US"!

Remember that Flop at some time stated that Lumia sales exceed expectations? AT&T touted that the marketing campaign for Lumias would exceed the ones for the iPhone?

And then Nokia sells a total of 0.33 Mio Lumias in the U.S, including the "flag ship" L900 on AT&T and the cheapo L710 on t-mobile?

Okay, this number is so low it is almost unbelievable. Don't forget, these sales are before osborning WP7.

What are they thinking in Espoo?

James G

@SO Vatar They claim that "Nokia has only sold 330,000 Lumia devices in the US"!

And did you see all those WP7 fanboys comments in denial "I don't believe these BS numbers." I could easily see that the MS marketing money was at work just be reading a few of the Lumia sickly sweet glowing reviews on ATT mobile. Selling #1 and then when the phones had a defect. Suddenly they sold out, or did they simply stop sales until they figured it out. It was easy to see that something odd was going on. Now we start to see some numbers. Nokia's results next week are going to be very interesting to see. Will they post some numbers or just try to hide the decline?

Chris D

@So Vatar, @James G
Even the WP fan site has picked up the news: http://wmpoweruser.com/nielsen-nokia-only-sold-less-than-300000-nokia-lumia-900-in-usa/
Nielsen responded saying that they do not support multiplying their share with comscore's numbers. Indeed, from my point of view, that can lead to a significant margin of error - especially considering how low the market share is to begin with (BIG difference between 0.3% and 0.4% for example). But even allowing for a big margin of error up to 50%, the numbers are still dismal.

Spawn

@zlutor

> not all old computer is capable of running the new one. CPU, RAM requirement, certain GPU requirements for W7, etc.

Old computers with hardware being not strong enough to run the newest Windows, yes.
Lumia 900 hardware is not old. Its an expensive powerhorse. Or do you argue Windows 8 RT will not run on todays hardware? Then how can it run on Surface which contains todays hardware?

> And WP8 will be compatible with WP7.x

But not the other way around. Great for WP8 users but WP7 users will not be able to run any WP8 apps.
That is unlike Android where near all of the apps run fine on Android 2. That is unlike Windows Desktop where most apps run fine on tge previous, older version.
WP7 is stuck with the apps that are in the store now. All the new apps, all the desktop+tablet+phone ecosystem will not come for WP7. No new IE, no Office, nothing. Lumia is now prisoned in an own ecosystem while Microsoft moves on to a new one. They take the WP7 apps (and with that the developers) with them to WP8 leaving back a Lumia ghost-town.

> So, there is nothing new here.

Not for 99.7%. But those 300.000 Lumia owners (US alone) will find it not amusing. Those where the early adaptors, the Nokia hardcore fans, tge Winxows harxcore fans and they just got screwed.

> Qualcomm ... How to built them into current Lumias?

They are already in the Lumia's. Lumia uses Qualcomm chipsets.

> NFC - yes, support can be disabled - question how important role M$ planned to it?

Windows 8 already supports devices whi have no NFC. NFC is official optional.

> there must be _real technical_ reason behind this restriction

No, there are not. Its just that Microsoft not likes to waste any resources to support the 300000 Lumia sold. The go for Apple and not care about 0.3%.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/248279/windows_8_tablet_requirements_revealed.html

"Microsoft has said that all Windows 7 machines will be able to run Windows 8"

> It would be best interest of M$ to provide smooth update...

They provide a smooth update to developers. Lumia sold to bad to be of any strategy interest for Microsoft. They focus all there resources on WP8 and Surface now.

> It was Ballmer. He osborned Nokia" - c'mon! They are adults, why on earth will they do it without good reason?

Who says there where no reasons? Ballmer aborted WP7, the Nokia-case and moves all attention to Windows 8.
See that as signal that WP8 will not be like WP7, as signal to customers and partners that WP8 will not be a continuation of th WP7 disaster but a new start. See that as signal that the reason why WP7 failed was Nokia, not Microsoft and they will not repeat that mistake. They will now do themself (Surface) and Nokia is no special partner any longer.
Ballmer sees that Nokia is fighting against the dead and he build up a wall to not bind the success of WP8 on Nokias future. He made clear: Nokia is just a partner and if they die its not changing anything for us. WP8 will be a success even without Nokia.
You see that also in his recent interviews. He now ALWAYS namds Nokia AND HTC as partners. He is very carefull ti not damage WP8 cause of Nokias downfall.

Kenny

Not only did Nokia sold a dismal 330,000 Lumia phones in U.S. but even more humiliating is that Samsung and HTC WP7 phones outsold Lumia. See Nielsen's Smartphone Manufacturer's share by OS at http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/12/nielsen-has-android-near-52-percent-of-us-smartphone-share-in-q2/

So all the multi-million glitzy promotions and the more than 400 fake 5 stars and 4 stars reviews on Amazon didn't help? What a shame!

Spawn

@Baron95

> follow Microsoft's minimum HW specifications.

What Lumia does. The requirements are not so different from those they had for WP7. In fact the requirements for WP8 are more relaxed then those the had for WP7.

> Win 7.8 will make the UI look very similar to Win 8

The UI is not what matters but the ecosystem ia. Read up on Elop's manifests.
Since WP8 apps do not run on WP7, cause of the uninteresting market share of WP7 and the already limited interest for WP7 AND cause of WP8 the WP7 is an own ecosystem, unrelated to the Windows8 ecosystem, a now dead ecosystem.
WP8 is taking the very low interest over, Microsoft anf partners focus on the Windows8 ecosystem leaving Nokia and its Lumoa customers back, alone in the dark, on a dead ghost-town.

But the good news are that only a small group of customers got screwed. Guess Microsoft and Nokia should be happy they sold so less Lumia :-)

@vladkr

Sales gone too. What stays are management and legal.
Plan B are the patents.

@geektech

N9 sells better then Lumia. We have numbers for Norway at least to prove that now. So, Tomis analysis was once more correct.
But at the end it makes no difference.

The comments to this entry are closed.

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