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« Wisdom of the Tweets - another Twittercontest, now guess Lumia Q2 sales | Main | Digging Deeper into Nokia Q2 Results - and exactly how many 'awesome' sales was AT&T and China... (Updated) »

July 19, 2012

Comments

jo

n9 shipped millions , it sold on carrier in latin america, china and smaller market

but it sold what it was expected to sell.

i mean it was release in china mobile due a deal pre elop, that first meego phone was going to be sold in there.

and it had one popular "big" yet not expensive CM, with a popular chinene actres.


its pretty clear is nokia pushed meego and nokia air, windows phone would be not even 5th ecosystem, microsoft couldn't allow that to happen so they send their troyan.

what scares me how finland goverment or EU can't see this as troyan-

microsoft is getting everything from nokia, and nokia only gettting meaningless 250m

Nata

@ former N900 owner
Lumia 800 reusing N9 design? Hardly! It reused the external casing, but then full stop. It's even based on a completely other chipset manufacturer, so hardware and software was all new.

@ jo
If N9 sells millions they also have to be made in millions. Where do they come from, at least not from Salo anymore.

Another simple fact. A company making red figures will certainly take every dollar it can, especially with N9 targeting a very different segment than WP buyers.

former N900 owner

@Nata
The Lumia 800 used the N9 exterior design. The software was completly different and it had another chipset. But my point is, that it wasn't a completly innovative product at all. The design was already there and the inside was solid not outstanding.

So I don't see on which point we disagree.

Huber

@former N900 owner:

I can see Windows 8 Tablets being a success in the business environment, since it runs on x86 Hardware and hence can easily be integrated into existing company infrastructures.

So instead of spending $400 or $500 on an iPad or Android tablet and then integrate it into your IT infrastructure, it is most probably cheaper to buy a Windows 8 x86 tablet for $ 1,000 and reuse the already-existing tools and software.

But for consumers it is probably too expensive and too heavy.

Window RT OTOH with its ARM SoC is not interesting for businesses, but for consumers. But here iOS and Android are already established, with solid App support etc.

Additionally, lots of customers will assume Win RT is able to run existing software, which it is not. This will lead to lots of dissapointed users, especially when they recognize that not only existing Software doesn't run, but Win RT lacks in Apps, too.

Win 8 on desktops/ notebooks is just a joke, users won't like to learn handling a new UI just because it is new and different. I personally will skip Win 8 on my PCs.

WP8 will also fail in the market if MS continues to copy Apple's wallet garden approach. Only Windows fanboys (or clueless customers) will buy them.

Only if WP8 is a tremendous enhancement to WP7 MS has a slight chance. But even then, most Apple and Android users will stay in their ecosystem, especially those who already have bought lots of Apps.

zlutor

@Nata: AFIAK N9 was/is manufactured in China as well...

See http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?s=0eaa81d3165dfc8281b7eaf16b1cfed8&p=1160556#post1160556

And L800 obviously uses N9 (external) design...

m][sko

I read transcript of results
http://seekingalpha.com/article/732691-nokia-management-discusses-q2-2012-results-earnings-call-transcript?part=single

I don't think that elop is aver difference between WP7 and WP8
He want to do both in future.
But there is one problem you can do stuff in C/C++ on WP8 (you can port apps/games more games from iPhone/Android) to WP8
but you can't do same to WP7. For WP7 it is much more work to do C/C++ to C# is s.. And it is much slower in C# XNA.
No one on this world will make A-title for WP7 in C# XNA.
No unreal engine, ... on WP7

Stupid home screen don't help anything
Most people want phone that can do something even if they never try it

Jolla

Saw a couple of good articles on Nokia-Microsoft.

Go to semiaccurate dot com.

Jul 16, 2012
Desperation forces Nokia to cut Lumia price in half

Jul 3, 2012
Microsoft does not have a mobile strategy

-----
On the tablet market, Microsoft is facing a rebellion from major OEMs, in retaliation over the Surface announcement:


Jun 29, 2012
HP said to dump Microsoft over Surface

I recall earlier this year, someone said that Nokia is going to make (Windows?) tablets. Uh-oh.

Stephen Elop is utterly destroying Nokia from within. The members of the Nokia board are also nothing more than cowardly sellouts.

Kenny

Nata says, "Another simple fact. A company making red figures will certainly take every dollar it can, especially with N9 targeting a very different segment than WP buyers."

Sorry, Nata, not when it comes to Elop. He wants no success other than Lumia. The way he suppressed N9 from the beginning by pronouncing it a dead OS and banning it from major markets tell the whole story. Even now, N9 has been withdrawn from most European markets. Another example, why isn't Nokia promoting its Pureview 808 which has captured lot's of users' interest? Nokia is treating Pureview 808 like an illegitimate child to be hidden away and sold quietly in shame.

Alex_Ramires

Hi all,
I'm particularly interested about 400mln.euro IP prepayment. Is this payment a result of patent selling as WSJ claimed or it is a royalty prepayment? Without this 400 mln euro the Q2 report just one horrible thing. Let's count Elop's Nokia lost 379 mln. euro. Since it was also subsidized (thanks to another MSFT moron) in amount of 250 mln. usd the actual loss is about 600 mln. euro. That's a huge price to push WP project but people still don't eat it. Back to 400 mln. euro IP payment, is Elop selling all of Nokia to promote WP and make himself look better? In terms of Q2 report it is called "cash preservation" but rather looks like devouring of Nokia by MSFT virus.

Carpenter

There is an interesting comment in Asymco. If true, the actual report should be read very carefully.

http://www.asymco.com/2012/07/19/how-many-lumia-phones-were-shipped-in-the-us/

Samuli • 8 hours ago −
Hi Horace, I'm bit worried about that can you calculate correctly Lumia device shipments in North America region. In Nokia's Q2/2012 results, Nokia calculates IPR revenues to be part of income for Devices & Services unit. And in the results, there's interesting note: "The following table sets forth the net sales for our Devices & Services business for the periods indicated, as well as
the year-on-year and sequential growth rates, by geographic area. IPR royalty income is allocated to the geographic areas contained in this chart." (http://www.results.nokia.com/r... at the end of page 6).
If I read this correctly, this means that 128 million euros, what Nokia reported for Devices & Services North America net sales for Q2/2012, includes also IPR revenues.

Alex_Ramires

Baron95, thanks for the clarification. Probably Nokia has to buy one of those trolls. I am Nokia long and that is because their products use to be an appealing combo of quality and value. Hope Nokia will survive. Elop & Balmer have to go.

Spema

Nokia stock is down to 1.70 ... Like I guessed it was a rebounding dead cat.

Hahaha!

Shipments is not the same as sales, haven't been and won't ever be. Nokia has saturated the sales channel with phones and those are not sold but just shipped! There is a huge surplus of unsold phones in the retailers storage rooms.

Matti

"I'm particularly interested about 400mln.euro IP prepayment. Is this payment a result of patent selling as WSJ claimed or it is a royalty prepayment?"

It's most likely somekind of unregular IP payment. Propably from Apple.

It can't be any major IP sale, because Nokia would have legally had to tell shareholders about that. Its unlikely to be any "normal" IP payment, because Nokia has traditionally arranged to get major royalties from improtant patents (GSM, LTE etc) during Q4.

Eduardo

@Baron95

Thank you for the reply. I asked a serious question, and you gave a serious answer.

"As for market share, I think Windows 8 will take 5% smartphone share and 10% mobile computing (including tablets, etc) share by Q4/2013.

My guess is WP8 is going to do worse than you think, but perhaps I am wrong. But even if you are right, 5% is an awfully small third ecosystem.

"I think Windows 8 phones share will be split roughly equally between Nokia, Samsung, ZTE and HTC by Q4-2013."

That would be 1.7% market share for Nokia. How many employees would it have to fire, and how many other assets would it have to sell off, to survive at that level?

I am actually Eduardo, sorry for the typo.

J.O. Aho

@Eduardo:
I don't think Samsung, ZTE, HTC or anyone else will be making a lot of advertisement for the few wp devices they may make, so they will not get that much market share in that segment, as they have more profitable products to market. Today they have somewhere around 0.2% of the market share if looking at the microsoft based devices which makes ma doubt that they will be selling any next year.

When it comes for tablets, I think microsoft will have big difficulties as they alienates their traditional desktop/laptop partners.

WP8 on desktop will most likely drive a big chunk of customers to OSX, as a huge part of the users seems to dislike how metro works.

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