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« Brief Commentary on Today's Nokia Bad News Day (updated 3x) | Main | News Update Only, Blogs Coming Soon »

June 15, 2012

Comments

Kenny

Leading Analyst said, "You praise MeeGo. I have tried it, and the 1st use experience is simply awful." and "However, nobody can deny the fact that Nokia Lumias offer a nice user experience".

Switch MeeGo and Lumia in the above descriptions, Leading Analyst and you would have got it right. I have a N9 and swipe UI and multitasking is simply delightful. Meanwhile I've been hanging around WP forums and it tells a different story. Besides the many restrictions and limitations of the WP7.5 OS, Lumia users have a particularly horrid experience due to the innumerable hardware defects and firmware bugs. The Lumia is a rushed product and it shows.

bjarneh

There are two sides to every story, as much as this looks like a failed OS switch on Nokias part, it may just be the best attempt at stopping Linux as the dominant mobile OS ever made. Very soon the dominant mobile OS, will in fact be THE dominant OS as smart-phones will dominate the desktop pretty soon.

As a free software enthusiast this annoys me quite a bit, but it is hardly surprising. Microsoft and other companies who make their living from proprietary infrastructure will fight free infrastructure like Linux. FreeBSD/OpenBSD and other BSD projects will be exploited or left alone, the GPL makes this exploitation impossible, this is the threat.

MeeGo and its sister project Meltemi cannot be killed by such tactics, the code is free, and thousands of free software developers have been stepped on, they will not forgive nor forget. Nokia can take away their salary but not their pride, this is a game they cannot win. It may look easy for a big company to squash a group of free software developers, but history tells a different story.

eduardo

Tomi, do you think the abandonment of Meltemi will have any effect on who might buy Nokia?

cycnus

Tomi,

I wonder if you're blood is also blue... LOL

I think Elop is a coward, liar, and criminal.

A coward... because if he really think Meltemi should die, he should done that in Feb 2011, so it won't burn nokia cash....

It's really sad to see Meltemi die, if OPK still around, or Ansi Vanjoki lead nokia, Meltemi - Meego would really kick ass.

Allan83

Hi Tomi! Hope you read this comment of mine. I changed the name of both person to protect them from other people. I found a blog site that pertains to Windows phone and Android and found a comment. A comment from what he calls himself a Nokia employee and an interested blogger to the future of Nokia

Nokia Employee: Shave

This

"I don’t think it was just a decision that Nokia’s board or Elop made, but one that was influenced by the whole culture of the company. Many Nokia employees probably couldn’t see themselves using Android. I guess that feeling was worth more to them than saving the company in a practical manner."

is an utter insult.

Since when do the EMPLOYEES of an international corp have ANY influence on the strategy or wahtsoever.
What are you smoking?

I am a Nokia employee and i do not know one colleague who had influence in this OR would have thought it is a good idea and support such nonsense.

MS was never a favorite in the "NOKIA culture".
vice versa ... always proud to deliver an OS developed in Europe as a choice.


Interested blogger: art83

Shave if you are really are a Nokia employee then answer this question truthfully and without fear. What do you think will be the saving grace for Nokia is it the Meego Harmattan, Windows Phone or The latest Iterations of Symbian?


Nokia employee: Shave

Meego / Symbian, but never Windows Phone.

No Nokia employee admire Microsoft, because of their bad culture or gene. They are simply killing Nokia by injecting Elop (a MSFT employee) into our Nokia.

But, I also agree that Meego / Symbian cannot compete with Android in long run. But, our CEO must have continued them as they are in demand and slowly introduce Android and WP phones as well, just like how Samsung operates. But, this is not possible in our Nokia because of Elop, a Microsoft mad virus.

After that end of comment conversation.

jiipee

Tomi,

there was very interesting comment at My Nokia Blog:

"Originally, Meltemi was developed in collaboration with subcontractor called Nomovok. In spring 2011, all subcontractor contracts were terminated. Meltemi development was continued in Oulu and part of the work was transferred to new location in Ulm,Germany (possibly because the termination of the Bochum plant was proved to be extremely expensive operation). If Nokia had continued to use subcontractors instead of moving the development to new people in new location, the Meltemi phone would have been ready last January. It is possible that McDowell got fired because she could not deliver the Meltemi phones in promised schedule.
Meanwhile, the Android phones have become cheaper and are now competing in the same price points the Meltemi phones were planned to operate, which could be a reason to cancel the Meltemi project. However, Elop has not admitted anything yet. It could be that the Meltemi work still continues in Oulu and the reason to close the Ulm was that they were just incompetent. Nokia still continues to develop QT and now that Symbian is buried, the only reason would be that there will be another QT compatible OS coming. I hope that Maemo/Linux work still continues, but I’m getting more doubtful all the time."
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/06/15/no-meltemi-what-about-smarterphone-what-is-there-beyond-s40-what-of-qt/comment-page-3/#comment-594983

The above sounds plausible and fits to what was said about subcotracting. If this is true, the new strategy caused serious delay in delivering competitor to Andoid in low price segment ie. Meltemi. And it would have run Qt. Imagine China Mobile selling N9 alongside with Meltemi phones.

It is evident that Nokia themselves killed the low price segment themselves. How long it will take to get WP to the lower price segments 6 months - 12 months?

Pom

Tomi, when you calculate the profit/loss for the NAVTEQ purchase, don't forget that *if* Nokia hadn't bought them, they would have to buy the maps from someone else right now. Moore's law makes sure that GPS chip price goes down, but there's no corresponding law when there are only two companies in the entire world that can provide global maps. It is entirely conceivable that NAVTEQ would've been scooped up by a competitor, and the map license fees would be pretty extraorbitant right now.

Assume a $5 map license/device, then consider how many devices Nokia has shipped (and assumed they would ship back in 2007, when they were still the undisputed leader). You will quickly realize why Google started their own, very expensive, mapping division.

Kenny

jiipee, WP isn't suitable for the lower price segment. It's not just the cost of the phone itself it's the whole ecosystem. WP revolves on having a PC which can install Zune and data connection for file transfers using SkyDrive. Zune will only transfer photos, video and song files. Any other files including MS office and pdf files need a data connection to transfer to the phone. This means the phone also need a data connection.

This means that users need a reasonably modern PC which can run Windows XP SP3 as a minimum. If you do not have a data connection for the PC Zune will not even install.

As another reader pointed out, WP is designed for affluent Western countries and trying to shoehorn it for emerging countries where even stable electricity is a problem won't work.

Johannes N.

> "- You praise MeeGo. I have tried it, and the 1st use experience is simply awful. Worse than Symbian and miles behind WP. As a native Linux it is very open and powerful for the hard core nerds, but that represents only 0,0001% of the users."

This is complete nonsense. I have both here and used the N900 for 18 months. The N900 with Maemo still had some Geeky aspects and rough edges. The N9 with MeeGo is perfect for a newbie phone user. In terms of user friendliness, this is an amazing achievement.

> "A platform that cannot properly integrate with the leading service platforms (for exp. Google) is a dead horse."

It is integrated better than many others. For example, the N900 already had full integration of Google talk. And it synchronizes nicely with outlook, for the record.

> "Moore's law takes care of the decreasing price points for all smartphone platforms."

You don't have a fuck of a clue.

Read that:

http://www.gotw.ca/publications/concurrency-ddj.htm

Processors will NOT scale as before with increasing clock rates. Power consumption and heat both become too high. Since several years, Moores law applies only to the number of gates on new chips. On the desktop, we have already more and more processors and this will stay with us. This means that software needs to become truly parallel. Parallelism means that software must be designed for it from the fundamental level. It is often software technology which is used on supercomputers.

Windows is full of legacies and it will probably never be able to do that well. This is because, for example, one of the most fundamental mechanisms in Windows is the message queue - which serializes events and prevents parallelism. This overwhelming burden of legacies is the reason why now every new Windows version feels sluggier than before. They just cannot profit much from more processor cores. The only gain is from running the ubiquitous malware on another CPU.
In contrary, Linux platforms like MeeGo do not need to do multicore now - MeeGo is way more efficient than Windows Phone 7. But when it needs to, Linux has a rock-solid base of doing symmetric multiprocessing and running on big iron supercomputers and mainframes like IBM zSeries for more than 14 years.

On the OS level, this applies especially to storage. Flash memories are becoming larger and larger and file systems and data volumes are becoming more and more of a bottleneck. File systems like Linux' btrfs are becoming a huge advantage - and that's not something some idiots will develop quickly in a few months if pressed hard enough.

And one of the points most important for consumers is now battery life. This is directly related to multicore CPUs which replace high clock rates by parallelism.

As I need to repeat: You don't have the slightest clue.

n9rocks

iPhone =Jesus phone
N9 = God phone

Sorry, but to state anything else is plain proof you never actually tried the N9!

JP

My understanding is that Jerri wasn't hired by Elop. It was Niklas who did it before Elop started. For some reason she started after him, giving the impression he brought her, but the truth is he didn't want her from the beginning... Maybe he didn't want to overrule such a hire right after starting and he ended up tolerating it... For some time as we can see now.

cycnus

Next Nokia shareholder meeting could be even more interesting than before...

I just hope someone in the meeting yell:
"Fire Elop!!
Elop is criminal!!"

Henning Heinz

So what do you believe Nokia expected from Elop when they hired him? That he pushes Linux and Symbian?
I don't think so. They hired Elop because they believed that the best strategy to survive is to cooperate with a company that has tons of money and wants to push its mobile operating system.
This is what Nokia expected and this is what he did, with all consequences. And this is the reason why Elop is still on board and many others have gone. He did what Nokia asked for and he executed. Do you really think Elop was not asked what he is going to do before they hired him?
And then there is Android. The shining star that make so many mobile companies happy. Really? True, Samsung is very successful with Android but does it work well for Sony, Motorola or other vendors selling Android mobiles? Do they earn tons of money comparable to what Nokia made 3 years ago?
When Samsung went with Android they very well recognized that Android is not enough and invented Bada and now Teezeh (they also have some proprietary dumb phones). Samsung is just doing great in many ways.
Nokia has other plans and this means that big parts what make the Nokia of today are becoming redundant. You don't need great software developers if you just buy your software. You don't need great hardware developers if the specs come from the software vendor.
You need less sales people if you decide that you are giving up whole market segments.
Now you say that Elop is probably the worst CEO of all times. Maybe he is but he will make a fortune while leading Nokia. We will earn more money than anyone who is writing a comment here. He will also make some of his closest friends quite happy. Who can claim that they made some close friends millionaires?
When there comes the day when Elop has to resign, his final pay cheque will only become bigger the worse he performed. It is a sad story for all those people working at Nokia but there are many Elops around.
Elop is not the biggest problem anymore. Nokia needs a new owner not a new CEO. They need a new strategy and if the strategy is clear it does not matter much who is the CEO. If the strategy is just Android then things will only become worse. Android would be Windows Phone but without the Microsoft money. RIM made some of the same mistakes Nokia did but at least they now have a plan that could work.

kirill

Tomi, i think only good news yesterday was news about Savander and McDowell. these two had a very strange path at Nokia. they were in charge of something, screwing up and then getting new higher job and salary all the time.... Mary was in charge of eseries, it was peace of shit, she left it (then eseries became ok), but she become responsible for corporate development and we lost direction. same thing with Niklas. so, it was definitely they should be fired instead of Anssi 2 years ago...

AtTheBottomOfTheHilton

I really like the comments that has information from current or previous persons who has worked for Nokia. In not only the facts that interesting but also the internal morale and opinions of the people there. As more and more people are sacked we will get more information what is really going on. So if you know someone who works or worked at Nokia, ask them what is going on there an about their personal opinion.

Nokia, is beyond saving and there is nothing that can be done right now unless there is a intervention from the Finnish state that stops all this. What makes me angry is how Microsoft kills competition in anti-competitive way. Please start over and compete with Microsoft again so that they know that their Nokia coup was in vain.

WindRider

To all the posters hinting that there is another linux bassed OS in the works: there is not. The future for the bottom end is S40 and the Asha line, probably with Smarterphone UI.
Meltemi was never open source like MeeGo/Harmattan. That project is now over, and will never see the light of day. The Qt asset will be sold off, Meltemi shelved.

AtTheBottomOfTheHilton

@WindRider

Qt will never be sold because in the wild Qt can compete with Microsoft. Microsoft has Qt where it wants it to be, safely at Nokia in a box collecting dust.

Also, Linux based phone OS is certainly dead at Nokia. However, that doesn't stop anyone from creating one outside Nokia and I think this is what will happen. Microsoft is losing credibility all the time because they are lying all time and treat their customers like crap. People avoid Microsoft like you try to avoid a friend you know is a serial killer. This friend might be nice to you but you avoid the person anyway because you never know where you have that person.

Actually, if Nokia (the consortium, not Nokia phone company) has some interest left they should invest in a new OS company. Who knows, it might be a success.

Earendil Star

It is now certain that WP8 will not support current Lumias.

This means that what MS & THT Elop did is even worse than I had originally thought.
To Nokia and to consumers.

Practically, they shoved this BS OS to Nokia and consumers, with a huge marketing effort including wild astroturfing, knowing very well it was just a stop-gap to buy time.
A transition OS, with no upgrade path, just to have the name "WP" in the news.
Just think what would have happened if MS had to wait until end of 2012 competing against ICS and iOS 6 with WM...!

Again further evidence of the utter disregard by MS of consumers and partners.
OK, nothing new, but another blatant confirmation that they are ruthless and so far in the mobile space worthless.

I wonder whether MS disclosed to Nokia's board that WP was a stop-gap thing.
They first made Nokia wait one year from THT Elop's appointment to the first crappy Lumia phone.
Now another year is passing by before the first WP8 device comes out.
Two years were lost in the process and probably Nokia's own survival.

I am utterly disgusted.

Ted T.

Elop may be a bad manager, but this "Nokia/Symbiam" was doing just fine against the iPhone nonsense is just silly.

Please explain how Nokia would have done better than RIM --'they stuck to their guns, they didn't fire their old management (until just now), no burning platform memos and no legacy dumb phone business to drag it down. Yet RIM is every bit as dead as Nokia -- more dead in fact, because a desperate Microsoft may well keep Nokia afloat for a long while.
Elop was absolutely right about one thing -- the writing was on the wall, without some drastic change Nokia was dead against iPhone/Android. Of course his then proceeded to do all the wrong things, starting with the public Osborning of Nokia's entire existing product line. And maybe even if someone had done all the "right" things by 2010 it was probably too late. The burning platform moment came in January of 2007 when the iPhone was announced. Google saw it, and immediately switched from producing a Blackberry clone to an iPhone clone. Nokia, RIM and Microsoft didn't -- the results are there for all to see.

N9

@Ted t. "Please explain how Nokia would have done better than RIM --'they stuck to their guns,"

News flash!!! RIM is selling more smartphones than NOKIA, It may very well survive its transition as it did not kiled its existing sales, and consumer fans.
NOKIA is currently DEAD. your hope for "Microsoft may well keep Nokia afloat for a long while" is wishful thinking, Microsoft might buy the IP remains of Nokia, but giving cash is not something I see them doing unless they are going to do the same for all OEM'S in their last breath....

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