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May 16, 2012


So Vatar

can you provide some background how you arrived at WP and MeeGo numbers for Q1? I understand we are looking at the minor leagues here (WP sales numbers are almost a rounding error compared to Android), but I can't find anywhere a conclusive report that shows WP sales in Q1 and MeeGo sales in Q1.
Of course I'd like to see MeeGo as comparatively successful (I use an N9 and I am very satisfied with the device), but it is hard to believe that in Q1 almost as many Nokia N9s were sold as handsets running WP (sold by Samsung, HTC, and Nokia).

Tomi T Ahonen

Hi So

Follow the link, there is the blog I explain why my guesstimate says that still in Q1 MeeGo outsold Nokia branded Windows Phone Lumia units (but clearly did not outsell all of Windows Phone by all makers). I think judging by how aggressively Elop has tried to kill and discredit MeeGo, that he has been unable to provide an actual number, is near certainty that up to Q1 MeeGo did outsell Lumia. I expect that to change now in Q2 and no doubt, we'll hear that from Nokia in Q2 results.


Tomi Ahonen :-)


Hi Tomi
Looking at these figures, can we can Nokia to become #4, just under RIM for Q2 ?

As Salo factory doesn't manufacture anything any more, and as the other surviving Nokia factories are busy with Asha, 1XX and 2XX and other low cost products, where will the N9 be manufactured ?

Actually, will they be manufactured, or is it just the stock that is being sold in the US (by the way, N9 was available in North America since the beginning through independent resellers)?

About carriers' demand for Symbian products, it seems confirmed by a fact I noticed and shared here some time ago; not only Canadian carriers keep on selling symbian phones, they offer even recent ones (such as videotron for instance.)

P.S. I finally found a demo Lumia 900 nearby; I can't tell if it's good or not, as it was put right next to a Galaxy Note and a Galaxy S2, which have way better screens (and made the Nokia almost invisible)... that's quite a bad way to promote the Lumia.

Earendil Star

Tomi, thanks for the update.

Looks like RIM is going to overtake Nokia in Q2. Ooops...

I start being really impressed by THT Elop's performance. I believe it must be unmatched in the history on any company since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution.

Congrats, Stevie!


I'm a software developer, using Qt for Embedded Linux. I would love to buy the N950, but unfortunately this Microsoft mole refuses to sell me one. What can you say. The whole thing smells like plot by some big american investors. I wish someone would stop this canadian bastard and his gang. But unfortunately it looks like the case is lost. R.I.P. Nokia.


This is interesting:

"In pressure from European customers, Nokia’s board pressured CEO Steven Elop to back down and commit to further development in Belle. The company now has charted out Belle devices for at least the next three years. Belle platform development is also being spearheaded by software consulting giant Accenture."

So maybe the BOD is finally coming to its senses, but I am guessing it is too late to save the company


No, it's not true that the N9 is being quietly sold in the U.S. officially by Nokia. Fry is just bringing in the N9 on their own just as Amazon and Expansys have been doing all along. This means there will be no Nokia U.S. warranty for the N9. Fry appears to be bringing in the N9 as closing down sales as they used to do with other end of line products. Still, the price of US$599 shows the high value they put on the N9.


Meanwhile, NYSE:NOK is currently trading at $2.80, fresh new 52-week low and back to the September, 1996 price.


i'm sad to say that the N9 is basically discontinued as of now; the source which says the N9 is begin sold in the US is clearly interpreting the facts in a biased way. there is no evidence to support US sales of this (great) phone.


According to the bible, Egypt had ten plagues.
Water turned to blood, invasion of frogs, lice and locust-invasion etc...

For Finland - all that was needed was Elop.


It's probably Fry's own decision to bring in the N9 to U.S. Prices of N9 have been cut elsewhere like closing down sales. But the news that the PureView 808 will be officially sold in the U.S. is true and confirmed by Endgadget.

Here we can see the different treatment between the PureView 808 and N9. Nokia's original intention was not the sell the 808 in U.S. After hearing the cries of interest from U.S. consumers they relented. Why did they ignore the even louder cries of interest for the N9? Because the 808 is basically a monster camera with phone capabilities running outdated Symbian and it will not compete with Lumia. But if Nokia sells the N9 alongside the Lumia 900 it will probably eat the Lumia 900 for lunch.

But a sale is still a sale for Nokia so why the discrimination? Unless there is a Microsoft mole making the decision.

Sander van der Wal

If you are providing these figures for developers too, you should add iPad (and iPod touch) sales, or at the very least have those next to smartphone-only sales. iOS being on those devices too is a big part of what makes iOS attractive to developers. There are also niceties like iOS users willing to spend money on software (unlike some other well-known mobile OS starting with an A), but in this context total platform usage would alady be excellent.

Regarding the destruction of the Symbian user base, I would not assume Symbian users are a priori loyal. They would move to a better smartphone like a shot, and that is what has happened.

And about a new lease of life for Symbian: unless there is a new commitment from Nokia to support the platform indefenitely, it will not change much in third party developers supporting it. Learning a platform take time and the costs of learning need to be recovered during the lifetime of the platform. Three years is nothing, a platform is either supported forever, or it is dead. Whether reviving Symbian is going to work is still a massive gamble, there are opportunity costs.

Ralph Lauren outlet

a platform is either supported forever, or it is dead. Whether reviving Symbian is going to work is still a massive gamble, there are opportunity costs.


In practice support for a platform is one thing only, i.e. bringing new models.


@Sander van der Wal,

.... Regarding the destruction of the Symbian user base, I would not assume Symbian users
.... are a priori loyal. They would move to a better smartphone like a shot, and that is
.... what has happened.

I was also wondering about this.
Before the Elop 2-11 stupid memo, Tomi said that OS doesn't really matter, which mean Nokia brand is the one that the user after.

But it turn out, that most symbian user change to Android/Samsung.
Is it because Samsung is second best in symbian user opinion, and with the boycott on nokia, samsung gain?
Is it because user don't choose their phone, but buy the one that were offered by the sales counter.
Or is it because symbian user were microsoft hatter (just like me)?


It would be funny if the new symbian model would beat Lumia series sell.

Michael Elling (@Infostack)

It would be interesting to compare smartphone share with desktop/laptop share to see if there is much difference. The former are in relatively constricted/oligopolistic markets, while the latter are part of "open, competitive" markets. There is a natural power law that you might also refer to known as Zipf's law that may well be at play here. The smartphone market development has some definite parallels to the development of automobiles.


I wonder why smartest OS is languishing down there at 2%???

Elop Destroyed Nokia...Who you gonna call ???

I am going to launch a ten store covert intel, where I eavesdrop salesmen & customer interaction and take notes whether Nokia is recommended or not by the salesmen.

I will come back and report the results.

Tomi T Ahonen

Hi vladkr, Earendil, fritz, Eduardo and Kenny

vladkr - yeah, there seems to be a race between RIM and Nokia on who falls faster haha. Nokia is falling at faster rate, but started higher, so its not sure yet. I am expecting it to be close in Q2 and likely Nokia fallen behind RIM but I have better visibility to Nokia's major markets (here in Asia) than RIM's (North America)...

Earendil - yes, its true and what truly stuns me, is that there is so little reporting on the comprehensive collapse of Nokia. If this happened to Toyota in cars or Sony in TVs or HP in PCs or ExxonMobil in petroleum or Coca Cola in drinks, we'd have massive headline stories in the big business papers and magazines daily. But smartphones are still seen as a tiny near-irrelevant niche tech market where companies come and companies go haha.. But it will be increasingly in the news as the corporate Nokia suffers in the process.

fritz - I hear you and yes, it smells to high heaven, as they say. It also seems worse by the day on whether there can be any recovery even.

Eduardo - thanks, yes thats a very enlightening passage but also, like you say, it seems way too late now and the actions by the clearly reluctant Elop are obvious. He is not going along merrily to a better healthier Nokia. Because Nokia currently still has 2 MeeGo based devices that are still today (before iPhone 5) seen as highly competitive and desirable, and as they are Nokia manufactured devices in contrast with much of the Lumia line, which is subcontracted to Compal of Taiwan, and as MeeGo OS requires no royalty payments, there is almost nothing stopping Nokia from rushing the N9 and N950 to the market, try to sell as many millions now, while the Lumia line is suffering, to have something good to sell to Nokia customers this time. But no. He refuses. Even after the awards won like in the UK etc. That is lunacy in my book. And if Elop 'promises' some more Symbian Belle devices like the 808 PureView, that is small peanuts, while he pushes the Lumia line. I do see minor evidence of the carriers pressuring Nokia via the Board, and some even less evidence of it reaching Elop, but its not enough.

Kenny - thanks for the clarification. So its not even that bit of silver lining that we maybe hoped for. Clearly Elop wants to kill off the N9 and MeeGo as soon as he possibly can. And I sense that after Ollila retired as Chairman, now Elop has even more of a free hand to do what damage he feels like..

Thank you everybody for the comments, keep the discussion going, I'll return with more replies shortly

Tomi Ahonen :-)


Some little more reading; English translation of the "Microsoft Windows Phone 7 : reasons for failure" with MS' answer to it :

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