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« Postcards from the Digital Jamboree - Whats Happenin' in Smartphones Bloodbath? | Main | My TEDx Talk about Augmented Reality AR being the 8th Mass Media Channel - Updated with Link to Video »

May 23, 2012

Comments

Mush

@foo: How about using your own brains? ;-) Also, you don't have to wait too long till you get to hear the quarterly results. However, I wouldn't hold my breath...

CN

@foo

You can't question Forbes' extensive knowledge. After all, they are the ones who ranked Tomi as # 1 Influncer in Mobile business, back in January this year.

Should I leave it here, this posting would be deleted immediately. But, in all fairness to Tomi (not that he is fair to me), Forbes is not making any call on this - they just report what others have said. So, you can leave them out of this and return back to whether it's Tomi or Microsoft who knows the truth.

Honestly, I feel two important aspects have been more or less ignored, when people here get so mad.

1. I feel MS statement ignores non-official channels of iPhone sales (those 15M in CMCC, even though not officially available in CMCC...)
2. Someone said - I can't verify this, since I haven't seen any evidence myself - that this was a certain period of four weeks sales.

If these two issues are taken into account, it might be possible?

vladkr

Hei MikaA,

Thanks for your post which is quite positive and refreshing. Knowing how creative Finnish engineers can be, I'd love to see (and support) a company that would be reborn on Nokia's ashes, with young blood to make top-notch phones (made in Finland of course!).

nokiauser

CN, right.. Microsoft only claim WP sold 7% against iPhones 6%.. that is their only claim.. iPhone probably sold way more than that through unofficial channels though.

check the original story or Engadget this is all there..

SamKB

What is Finland doing about the imminent demise of their biggest corporation which is the biggest employer in Finland and pays a large portion of taxes? Are they going to watch quietly while a Microsoft mole destroys the company and the only world brand they have? Nokia should immediately be nationalized by the Finnish govt and Elop given the boot. Will some MP bring this up in the Finnish parliament? Otherwise in another year there will be no more Nokia.

vladkr

SamKB:
Some towns like Salo suffer a lot from the situation, as they lost lot of local taxes.
That's not to mention that despite factory re-sale to DeLonghi, Romanian case is still not completely cleared.

Dared

Could someone like Apple sue Nokia for purposely spreading false information?

jack1059

Great post as usual Tomi. Love the in depth. And this is just what Ive come to expect from MS, and am saddened to see that Nokia under elop headed down the same path.

I see lack of migration of current nokia customers as a huge problem given their previous install base. Why buy a phone which is worse from a functionality stand point then the one you're looking to upgrade from? None is the answer. So that leaves new customers who face the carrier boycott. In short, you really have to want one to get one. A few other issues are the whole way MS treats its customers. WM6.5 store is no longer just not supported, its closing! And you just bought a WP7 phone? Well you MUST upgrade for the store to work on your phone now. And oh, the new OS to be released this year wont support your newly purchased phone. So sorry. You just got smoked by WP.

And despite all this I still read articles on mobile web sites telling me "How to migrate to a WP". Why in gods name would I want to do that? And why do mobile web sites keep posting articles on WP OS when its being outsold by Bada?

Anne H

Great article, like always! I am very much impressed with your work..

CN

@Dared

You refer to this MS/China announcement? I feel that whoever is the owner of the statement (MS, I guess) would be able to find certain statistics to prove their case.
Secondly, it would take Apple quite a lot of balls to take this up, after their own, fairly questionable claim on New iPad 4G capabilities outside US.

But Folks, let's not get into that one - this blog is not about what Apple did, I guess.

So Vatar

So, I went the (mis-) information chain back as far as I could:

Forbes
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2012/05/23/microsoft-passes-apple-in-china-as-nokia-cheers/#footnote_0_122027

quotes BGR
http://www.bgr.com/2012/05/18/windows-phone-market-share-china-apple-iphone/

which quotes
WMP Poweruser
http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-takes-china-by-stormalready-7-market-share-ahead-of-iphone/
which in turn quotes the following source:

emerce
http://www.emerce.nl/nieuws/china-microsoft-grote-leercurve

An emerce person seems to be the original source, apparently he talked to Michel van der Bel, MS COO Greater China Region.

This is a quote from the emerce article (Google translated):
"The Windows Phone, which has recently been available in China, has two months after launching a market share of about 7 percent, according to Microsoft. Slightly larger than Apple's iPhone, which accounts for nearly six percent."

Interestingly in the comments sections of the emerce piece the apparent person who spoke to van der Bel replies when questioned about what Van der Bel really said as follows:

"I got it from Van der Bel himself.
Since the release of this posting Microsoft says that he didn’t say it. But that’s not the case, he did. So I ask: if it’s not correct (although V/d Bel did check the interview with this quote), what is than the ‘right’ number?"

Bottom line:
According to the source Microsoft's van der Bel said that WP overtook iOS in China, while Microsoft says that van der Bel did not say so.

And Forbes should really do more due diligence and not referring to a source that is removed 3 tiers from the original source. If they had checked with the original source a journalist worth to be called journalist would have written the Forbes piece differently.

So, Microsoft says that they did not say WP overtook iOS in China.

(This case is a great example of really bad journalism. While this can be expected from your shitty garden variety techno blog, Forbes issuing such a poor piece is really beyond me).

vladkr

vladkr

@So Vatar;

It's not bad journalism; it's a way to spray information, and to deny it after it was proven false, saying it's journalist's mistake.

As I said, Nokia/MS is starving, there is no limit in what they can say or do to get few more markets any more. They behave exactly like junkies who invent any BS to get their shoot.

vladkr

BTW : Lumia 900 = $25 with 3 years contract at BestBuy (vs $99 when released, in mid April)

If there really is a problem that delays release in the UK after the "high demand" in the US, they still can get Lumia 900 from Canada, no problem, stores which offer them have full shelves.

Jacob S

Regardless if Microsoft uses some creative ways of reading the statistics and thereby can, with some support by the numbers, claim that WP sells better than iPhone in Chaina or if MS simply puts a big lie in our faces; it is completely 100.00% clear that Windows Phone has extremely severe problems, check IDC press release http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23503312

Worldwide
2011 Q1 WP+WM 2.6%
2012 Q2 WP+WM 2.2%
Yes, YoY market share decline.

Alex Moro

China Telecom Corp. Ltd. (simplified Chinese: 中国电信集团公司, 中国电信) (SEHK: 728, NYSE: CHA) is a Chinese state-owned telecommunication company. It is the largest fixed line service and 3rd largest mobile telecommunication provider in the People's Republic of China.

Teemu

I have to agree with So Vatar, to me it seems bad journalism.
In the orignal article the quote was: "The Windows Phone, which has recently been available in China, has two months after launching a market share of about 7 percent"

And everything about beating iPhone was added by the reporter saying iPhones share is 6%. Which wasn't even true as it is 19% as Tomi mentioned.

Whether that 7% is true or not I have no idea. But all the headlines about WP7 outselling iPhone was taken from that reporter, not from van der Bel.

Some math (as I know Tomi likes it :))
Apple sold 6 million in China making the WP7's 7% around 2.2 million. From Tomi's 2.3 million worldwide I think it would be a bit odd if almost all sales would have come from China :)

But Tomi I think you can say better whether 6-7% could be something realistic in China. I could imagine majority of the sales could be coming from China, but almost all?

Franz

Could it be 7% of China Telecom sales rather than 7% of the entire Chinese market? That would constitute something like 0,5% of the total market if Tomi's statement on carrier shares in China is correct.

In any case it's clear that this has gotten out of proportion and I don't think Microsoft or Nokia is in a hurry to set the record straight. Being misquoted/misunderstood by a journalist is only a problem if the spin is negative.

aftonov

Do you want to know how Samsung support there sales?
I get this from sales man that work in operator store.
sales man get points for every samsung phone he sale (more samsung galaxy S2 phone more points ).
And every week sales man with most of points get 5 start vacation in Thailand.

That is sale support :)

elm70

@ aftonow

You didn't get it ;-) ... also Tomi does not get it ;-)

The Microsoft - Nokia aim it is not to sell the most Lumia smartphone.
The goal, it is to make people believe that Nokia Lumia powered by Microsoft are the most sold smartphones in the universe.
The goal is to make clear on the net with virtual ink that Metro UI is the best ever interface on the planet.

Elop told already some time ago ... the platform is not more burning :-o

Anyhow ... I'm afraid Elop will not sink in his burned platform, his bank account in Switzerland is more reach then ever :-(

Incredible, when hired as CEO of Nokia, he had a bonus plan tight to the Nokia stock price ... in 2011 he missed totally the target, as written by official Nokia document, he should have got ZERO, but for some hidden reason (the official document speaks about "fair"), he got anyhow 3B euro in Bonus for 2011 ... what a robbery .. what a corrupted BOD ... all mercenaries of American fonds that desperately are trying to support Microsoft (side line they also protect Apple and Google, so these are in win-win situation, is only Nokia in lose-lose)

Tchuss

e_lm_70

P

"Microsoft Locks Visual Studio Express 11 to Metro Only Apps"
http://www.decryptedtech.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=794:microsoft-locks-visual-studio-express-11-to-metro-only-apps&Itemid=138

>To do this they are shoving their new UI Metro down your throat whether you like it or not.

Is Nokia just a tool to market metro for Microsoft?

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