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February 29, 2012

Comments

afanen01

I don't agree with the arguments that the resolution is a symbian flaw either, and I know that the technology to double the screen resolution and transparently scale the images is not impossible to implement.

It must be something to do with cost, or just plain taking the easy way out that kept them from raising the resolution. Perhaps they would have needed a higher specced CPU and GPU to double the resolution and keep up with handling the grunt work for the camera, which would put the phone at a price that will make it hard to sell.

If they are still committed to Symbian, they may announce another pureview phone soon enough with improved specs as scale improves pricing.

elm70

@Baron95

Man you are INCREDIBLE .... you are the big fun boy of Windows Phone

And state these thing:
-> Because Symbian is such a decrepit OS that Nokia can't change the screen resolution. They tried on the E6, and a bunch of apps simply don't work, further frustrating users. The single core process, will make editing and processing pictures on the phone extremely slow <-

MAN !

Windows Phone is also fixed to 800x480 ... Windows Phone 8 will support only 4 display type ... wow, this is the brand new fresh OS from the smart US developers.

Windows Phone, not only is castrated to single core, reason is that is not supporting multitasking, so, no multitasking, no sense for multi-core. Again Super duper Windows Phone, is behind Symbian.

Yes, Elop must have sleep bad after present the 808, 808 shout loud and clear, that Windows Phone decision for Nokia was a big disaster, market said this already the same day that Elop disclosed his new strategy. -30% in stock market only for announce a new strategy ... this is a world record in a company devaluation

Tchuss

e_lm_70

ps: Tomi said already, yes, 808 is too late, after 1 year that Nokia-Elop announce the death of Symbian, it is too late ... people did move on, this will be just sold to few geeks probably better the N9, but still will not change the down spiral of Symbian sales.

vladkr

Will the 808 be sold in "exotic" markets only, just like the N9?

I'm also curious, where will it be made, if most Nokia factories closed recently?

Is it just marketing to say "hey, wait a little, we're able to make a 41pix photophone, so if you're patient enough, you'll get a 41pix WP-photophone in 10 years" ?

F.OO

@Tomi: "But lets be clear. I argued time and again on this blog and elsewhere, that the madness for giant handset maker Nokia was to abandon its competitive edges, and try to do a perfect copy of the iPhone. That was as mad as Ford abandoning its vast range of cars, and only do supercars to compete with Ferrari."

That's the best analogy for Elop's strategy so far!

It's like if Ford declared that all the previous cars were crap, and would launch the perfect car... in the next year!!!

Obviously, sales tanked. And when the new car was unveiled, it would be pretty much what General Motors and Chrysler had to offer -- the same chassis, with slightly different shell.

elm70

@F.00

Yes, you explain even better what Elop did ... the most moronic action for every CEO in every company ... the real World Record of Nokia

Market react with -30% in Nokia capital valuation in no time while Elop was still finishing to explain the new strategy with Ballmer on his side.
Stock Marker is never wrong, in this case it can't be blamed the speculation from some Edge funds, since Nokia did further loss -30% ... putting Nokia to lowest value since 13/14 years

Yes, the most moronic action ever ... and still the share holders of Nokia are keeping him as Nokia CEO ... simple because the share holders of Nokia are also heavily involved with Microsoft ... the platform on fire we all know, was Windows Phone on February 2011 (and it was burning since years)

In additional Elop gifted Microsoft the right to use and get revenues from Nokia IPR. So far Microsoft is making more money collecting royalties from Android producers then selling Windows Phones OS. The Elop gift to Microsoft also strength the power of Ballmer to force more Android producers to pay "taxes" to Microsoft.

Tchuss

e_lm_70

zlutor

@Juan, Baron95: "I am really sorry, but a phone with a 41mpx camera and a 360 x 640 display to see your shots can only be thinked as a bad joke."

Do you happen to know the screen resolution of your digital camera? Are you interested in it? It just simply does not matter...

N808 is not about its screen resolution. You obviously will not edit the photos/videos it shoots on its screen but on your PC (if anywhere).
This device just kills its competition. Second to none in its category. Period.

Maybe not all the fanciest apps can be downloaded to it but its buyers will not give a sh#t about thos apps... :-)

BTW, @Baron95: you constantly mention that real programmers sits in Silicon Valley and there is no competence out of it. Did you happened to read that Nokia guys 'helped Microsoft' in optimization of WP7 enabling to run on less capable devices? Evidence of lack of competence, right? :-)

F.OO

@Louis "Elop made the best choice of the ones available, which was to go with a platform that actually has the potential to be competitive. Whether it will work out seems a bit up in the air, but his WP team did work unimaginably fast by Nokia standards."

I don't blame Elop for adopting Windows Phone, which is a great operating system.

The problem is that Elop closed the door for all alternatives. As I said many times before, that was a huge strategic mistake, which will condemn Nokia to spend the rest of its days fighting for a fraction of a fraction of the market.

Even if Windows Phone succeeds, Nokia will be limited to 1/3 of its market share.

There was no need (and absolutely no sense) in going 100% Microsoft.

Nokia should have adopted a neutral approach regarding the operating system, which would allow them to produce Windows Phones, Androids, and evaluate new technologies, like Mozilla's BootToGecko.

Who would loose with that decision? Microsoft. But Nokia would be in a much better position right now.

crunkykd

If all it took was having the latest greatest radios, cameras, sensors, screens, then you'd think that Sony or LG would have ruled the world ages ago. They have access to the latest hardware. But they don't rule the world. Because hardware alone is not enough as Apple and Android have so convincingly shown. A great camera on Symbian may disrupt some point and shooters, but not the smartphone leaders. So I suppose Kodak should be nervous about this phone; oh, wait...

darwinphish

The Ford analogy is funny because it reminds me of Ford's great quotes: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." The 808 looks like one really fast horse.

AtTheBottomOfTheHilton

The reason that they are using Symbian is because phone takes in general several years to develop. When the Nokia 808 project was planned, Symbian had already been chosen. I think what Elop most wanted was to can the project but too many in the company wanted this phone in order to show the world that Nokia is still the leader in imaging.

The question is if there is going to be a Microsoft camera phone in the future? I don't think Microsoft cares much about imaging as Nokia.

DS

The target audience for the WP7 (social network addicted youth) isn't much aligned to that phone. So I don't see MS bending over to support Nokia dedicated HW in WP. The phone is clearly directed towards photo professionals (the PRO moniker reflects that) and has potential to do well in this influential niche.
For those people some adequate sharing , basic phone functionality (where symbian excells) + non-nightmare FB, TW support should be enough. Instagram client wouldn't hurt though so Nokia should throw some cash at it asap.

DS

As for canning projects, looks like Elop is throwing out most of the genuine value Nokia has developed throughout the years.
He doesn't need the software,
he doesn't need the hardware (Taiwan/Qualcom can supply that),
he doesn't need the production,
he doesn't need the innovation (MS/WP wouldn't let it in anyway)
What does he need Nokia for then? The brand that has no value in the only market he cares about?
He took a huge, multi-varied company and tries to reshape it into, I dunno, HTC clone. But Nokia is Nokia and HTC is HTC. This is not going to work.
And if that is not the strategy for Nokia as company, he should look to realize his 3rd ecosystem vision elsewhere.

nsiltane

@Hoista

I'm completely aware of the megapixel myth. But still, you watch your TV or computer further way so the resolution per inch doesn't have to be as high as on a phone. The optimal resolution on a device would be the human iris' spatial resolution at the viewing distance. So there definatly is a point where resolution increase doesn't improve image quality. It's just that 0,2MP on a 4" screen is just nowhere near that. My iPad2 is another great example where spec bump wouldn't make any harm.

@Dr Zorg

Yes, I read their PR material. All of it. It's just the things they're saying isn't true. I'm a grad student on digital imaging so thrust me, I know what I'm writing.

So when completely zoomed out at 8,0mm (28mm eqv.) PureView does bicubic sampling to resize the picture from sensor. When zooming in you finally end up at 1:1 resolution. Then you still have the native resolution (1080p, 720p or whatever) but you lose the advantage from the bicubic sampling. The camera benefits nothing from sampling the pixels that end up not being used in the final image, right? The same applies for the optics, which by all odds is the limiting factor when considering resolving power here. The Zeiss optics might be the best phone optics there is, but when zoomed 3x in you end up using only one ninth of the image coming from the lens.

It's a great camera and definatly the greatest camera ever on a phone. Nokia's marketing is just stating facts that are not true.

tm

@nsiltane

But surely you agree that as opposed to normal digital zooming (upscaling the image by inventing pixels), method used in 808 (cropping) is taking the actual pixels from the sensor and not loosing any of those. Hence the lossless.

EL

According to Tomi, the 800 was Elop's fault, the 900 is Elop's fault, the N9 was great but had nothing to do with Elop, the 808 is great but has nothing to do with Elop, the E7 was Elop's fault.

Something tells me that the above arguments, when put together, do not read like a balanced assessment.

Pimu

If you take the Ford comparition a bit further you might see the genius behind Nokia's WP strategy. Obviously WP is the electric car and currently Nokia is using the Symbian platform to explore new tehcnologies that will be eventually used in future WPs to differentiate Nokia WP phones from the rest of the WP phones. I think Nokia was thinking two years ahead of all you because you seem to miss the obvious direction where mobile phones are heading to. In the future smartphones are only as smart as the services running on the backend servers or cloud servers and at Nokia they realized at least a year ago that without the help of a software giant like MS they wouldn't have nothing to offer at that end.

dr zorg

@nsiltane

Ok I understand now what you mean. We are talking a bit at cross-purposes here. You are talking about zoom, and of course the zoomed in pixels are taken from the full 38MP image and practically nothing happens to them - but nobody is saying that it does. The benefit to you, me, anyone is that we are able to zoom in to a portion of the full image without losing detail as previously happened in digital zoom.

In my previous post I was talking about the full 8MP image oversampled from 38MP, not about zoom. Even at 5MP the images with 808 are extremely sharp and clear, something that was only achieved on really high-end DSLR previously. Of course, once you use the technology to zoom 3x you will not have the oversampling advantage, but that's a different story. I don't think Nokia was even saying that.

dr zorg

@Baron95

What is your resolution on your laptop/desktop screen? How many PPI? What about your digital camera?

You are obviously fine with both of those and aren't suffering from lack of pixels on either. Why a different approach to mobile phones? Just because a company can cram 1080p into a tiny screen doesn't mean they should or that it's any use.

So, using your own words, some balance please.

dr zorg

@Baron95

...
....
.....

That's the whole point of the award - to reward the devices/companies that have innovated during the past year, that is, since last MWC. That can't be too hard to understand now, can it? IP3 will be a nominee in next year's awards.

And who cares about what Apple think?

ChrisD

@Tomifan, I concur with Tomi there - the 900 is like the 800 + LTE + front camera, it is hardly much of an improvement.

@F.OO, BootToGecko would be really interesting for Nokia to try out. I agree they should have done a multi-OS strategy like they have had for the longest time. That makes them less unique, but gives them more potential to succeed.

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