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August 23, 2011

Comments

haari

i'm a c++ developer and i've been working at nokia for nine years.
i hate microsoft so much and forced to use windows 7 on pc since nine years. actually i would like to use macbook pro but all of my line managers always declined my request to have it :-(

after the announcement of new strategy, i was starting to think to quit nokia and move to google or apple, what do you think guys? should i resign from nokia?

peter

@haari, win7 PC is excellent though WP7 is a crap.
VS2010/2008 is excellent IDE for developing windows apps/services for desktop/server/mobile.

No nokia investors complain about adding a Windows Phone line.

But they do object to the strategy of using it as primary smart phone OS for $1-2B cash from microsoft as marketing/R&D fee.

Nokia alone has already been a big player of top three. Meego Product line itself can be primary smart OS. and Market welcome it to be a major one of the three too.

Why self-inflicting in this way ? Only explanation is it is the result of economic crime commited by Jorma Olilla + Steven Elop + Chris Weber.

n900lover

Ahh, the good old Nokia conspiracy theory in reverse - all must have tanked in Q1 (or better - would have in Q2/Q3), otherwise why would bod and Elop made the change?

gamgigo

@Victor Szulc

Three phones by the end of 2013?
Three phones by the end of 2011:

N900 Already released (originally running Maemo - can be easily flashed to MeeGo) - Low end.

N950 Already being given away to developers - For developers.

N9 Already released in some places - High end.

As for the N9 is a fail:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/editorial-dear-nokia-you-cannot-be-serious/

Victor Szulc

Sorry, if you have a problem with that estimate, you should take it up with the guy who came up with that estimate: Kai Oistamo, chief of smartphone development at Nokia.

Read up on some of the recent articles about Nokia... Once Kai Oistamo went through the all of the development teams work, he came to the conclusion that they wouldn't have more than three Meego handsets in two years. When he reported that estimate to Elop, THAT'S when the final decision to join WP7 was taken.

n900lover

Victor Szulc:

Problem is that this statement is patently false. There are already TWO devices in hands of reviewers and developers and it's laughable to claim that in two years there could not be more that one device because of technical obstacles.

Only thing this shows is that Elop and management has absolutely no clue about what they are doing. Or they have a clue and are just lying.

shavy

Tomi always believe in figures. Figures doesnt neccesary show facts. Tomi, its time to let go of MeeGo. Your blog post is blinded by ur obsess with Meego and your hatred towards elope. Open up ur vision and your mindset.

I believe if you overcome Meego and ur hatred towards elope, your judgement of nokia future will be of a different views. I look forward to reading your "new" blog post.

Always remember, let the professional carry on with their work. As an outsider, it is better to keep your views and not disrupt the professional from carrying on with their work.

With nokia, life still carry on.. without nokia, life still carry on.

EL

N9 is not Meego, no matter what the PR says. The Meego Kai Oistamo talked about HAS TO BE the version that runs on Intel chip, not Maemo Harmattan rebadged.

apollo_dev_team

@n900lover:
How do you know that was patently false? Do you have more clue? Please let us know more...

apollo_dev_team

@EL:
N9 is not Meego? But N9 is MeeGo 1.2 "Harmattan"? (see Wikipedia) I'm getting confused and understand more or less now, why the big boss canceled it hehe ;-)

n900lover

apollo_dev_team:

Again, there are already two devices. If you have the UI and basic system, it is relatively trivial to port linux to another hw.

http://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/02/22/meego-scales-because-linux-scales/

http://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/my-disagreement-with-elop-on-meego/

Repeating that N9 isn't Meego is just semantic game. There is difference inside the OS, but that is totally irrelevant to users and almost irrelevant to app developers. It makes no sense to kill meego in nokia just because currently it has different app "installer" format that the real real meego.

And if somebody asserts that meego needs to run on "intel chip" he even doesn't read the PR statements.

Eurofan

Elop is no more a professional than the current pope is a holy man. Vestments and investment make an office holder not a wise leader. Elop is not wise, is not perceptive, and is not trustworthy. Where is the professionalism? I read @gamgigo, @n900lover, and now apollo_dev_team and completely agree with them, especially the first two. Oistamo, Elop & co. are splitting hairs over the language of the law. What about the spirit of the law. A company should make good products that its customers have reason to expect it will make. Nokia! Make what your fans and potential fans want you to make and would gladly pay for: N9, N950, and a flash updated n900! Three price points, three form factors, setting up nicely for next year's improved models. So obvious. In twelve months you will have the choice to confirm your Microsoft suicide pact or do what you should have done two months ago. Release the N9, N950, and flash updated (hardware quality control improved!) n900 for a quick 2-3 billion dollars in profits on top of a quick 4-5 billion dollars in world wide sales and market buzz. The "ecosystem" will come later, just as it did for iOS and Android. First compelling devices and OS and Nokia already has that, at least in its hard core fans' eyes and in the eyes of most professional smart phone observers.

EL

@n900lover

I don't claim to know more about Meego/Maemo than you (I certainly do not), but every where I read, they talked about Nokia keeping Harmattan so as to not postpone development schedule. That does not sound like merging Moblin and Maemo is merely copy & paste, bam bam next case..?

I was not referring to Meego Harmattan underlying Linux not relevant to users and app developers, I can comprehend that. But I would think that it matters to Nokia, who has to sell a phone with a SoC in it running some O/S. The N9 runs on the same chip architecture as N900 from 2 years ago. I would think at some point the hardware platform becomes relevant to the user experience. May be not 2011, but you only stay competitive for so long when everyone else is doing dual core with 1.5ghz clock speed. This gap will only widen.

Nokia was banking on Intel to deliver the next gen SoCs, Intel thus far has not delivered, so is the alternative sticking to OMAP3 indefinitely until Atom on phones turn up?

If porting Meego (Harmattan or otherwise) is relatively easy to port to other SoC architecture already, as suggested by the advocates, it really needs to be done pronto on modern multicore SoCs by whoever wants to pick up Meego after Nokia. S/W cannot live without competitive processor hardware.

Pino

@Baron95, where you can from? - are you another Microsoft trolls?, I have an N8 from November 2010, and I have had not any kind of bugs, or failure, or freeze or any other things!.
You treat us, Nokia users, as litle children!.
So what are you looking for in this blog?, you are an mentally ill?! why you are attacking Nokia N8 users with your lies from bugs and crashes? what do you win with this crap?
Ok, you do not like this blog, then wath are you doing here?, maybe you are some type of microsofist-sadomasochist that enjoy reading Nokia blogs for painful jerk and mental masturbation!.
I see, you like Microsoft Window Phone, show us a good paper about WP and why people/user do not buy devices with WP, or why WP market share is just a 1 to 1.5%, wait, maybe for you this numbers are a big success! if your answer is yes for this numbers, then I apologize if I offended you in any part of my comment.

James

@haari & peter,

That seems odd that nokia C++ programmers would be forced into using VS on Win7. If you program Qt for the phones you should be using Qt Creator. It works even better on Linux which makes sense for phone programming. Unless you program for the desktop, but even then Qt Creator compiles 4x faster on my quad core and has a far quicker editor than VS which isn't optimized for C++. The only thing I use VS for is the debugger if I have something really nasty going on.

This kind of makes me wonder if you guys know what you're talking about. But then I'm independent enough to tell a boss trying to dictate my tools to f--- off. But then I don't work for big nokia.

apollo_dev_team

@n900lover:
ooh you took Felipe as sources. It seems he has a lot of time to write his blog during his work in Nokia, no wonder... hehe. Well, he could quit Nokia as his boss Ari Jaaksi did one year ago and now ends up in webOS dilemma or another senior vice president guy Alberto Torres. Hmmm talking about webOS, I'm still disappointed since I was not able to get two fire-selled HP touchpads for 99$

If Meego is so great, why it couldn't convince anyone in Nokia boards to have it as primary Nokia smartphone's OS? Where was Meego when iPhone came and conquered the market??? Always delay and delay and delay??? Not ready for mass production??? This has been always the case over and over again until the decision makers came to the conclusion that there was a big mistake to rely on Meego (only).

Meego is great yes, from technical point of view, from developers point of view or from open source (fans) point of view, but for mass production, mass deployment, mass market or ecosystem perspective???
If it's easy to produce and has huge potential as smartphone's OS, why Nokia didn't have one or two Meego devices every quarter since 2010??? Why there is no other device maker takes Meego or at least give a chance to produce another Meego device at least one until today?

And as far as I know, Nokia strategy under Elop at the beginning was QT and Meego (before he moved to WP). Please ask Felipe what was the strategy of Nokia first under Elop before they moved to WP... just to make it sure...

n900lever

apollo_dev_team:

No, Felipe isn't my "source", I linked his blogs because he nicely reiterated the argument, bonus point he works in nokia and on meego.

It is simple fact that linux is the most easily portable operating system in world. It runs on biggest supercomputers, ordinary PCs, microcontrollers and yes, tons of ARM derivatives.

Why so long is different question. I'm not insider so I don't know the answer. But the fact is that working meego on N9/N950 is available (and this must have been obvious in February), which makes this whole transition to already failed wp7 even more absurd.

n900lover

EL:

Yes, it's not that simple, but it's not some gargantuan task. Moreover, it doesn't stop you from updating the UI or porting to another hw. I assume that's why they decided to create the swipe UI first, so they can ship product, and resolve the meego/harmattan dilemma later.

AFAIK the reason N9 is built around OMAP3 is because N9 should have been available last year. As the release date slipped the hw became old but changing it would add another year for designing the phone around new hw (the software isn't as much problem, after all linux already runs on OMAP4).

Nokia certainly didn't go with meego because of intel chips. From the start it was clear that it will take several years before intel has offering comparable to arm on the phones/handsets. Also intel doesn't keep the changes for themselves but pushes them directly into stock linux kernel to make them available for everybody, no need to use "their" meego.

Peter

tomi, we are now clear that nokias problem is integration and execution problem not the ecosystem problem.

elop has been executing in nokia for almost one year now.

Can you evaluate his performance with previous management ?

here are some aspects to look at:

1. wp7 product line appears being delayed, left behind htc, fujitsu, samsung,etc.

nokia is using microsft hardware platform and whole software for phase I, why it could take so long time to bring one wp7 to the market ? a small company with 100 employees can easily get it run with 6 months as long as it uses all microsoft staff.

2. meego n9 announced 2 months ago, we still have not seen any shipment to consumers. there is no improvement in execution.

3. symbian anna took 10 month to deliver. execution becomes worse under Elop.
Symbian belle looks on time but we got is just announcement not delivery of nokia 600,700,701.

4. Weber brought down nokia North Amerca sales already but there is no product line to sell in N.A. the new web site looks like a work of high school students.

From performance aspects, Elop and his ex-microsoft clan Weber are both disqualified IMHO.

Coupling with huge strategic error, can we say Elop and Weber will be fired by the end of this September ?

karlim

It's funny how this place is becoming an echochamber for those who hate current Nokia.

Tomi writes another post how Nokia last q4 is an absolute evidence that Nokia was turning around, that they had a huge hit with Symbian 3/N8. Then Victor Scultz and Baron95 show how one Christmas quarter 2010 can not be an evidence of anything Nokia. It is just one quarter, a fluke of Christmas buying season, pent up demand from Nokia fans for the devices that are late at least half a year, preodered and paid for at leat 1 million before the quarter even began.

And then Peter, n900lover, eurofan and the rest of the bunch jump on a completely irrelevant sideline to this Tomi's post (which was all about Nokia Q4 2010/Symbian resugence), and start pouting about what a great thing Meego/N9 is. Based on a few videos/1-2hr handling impressions from bloggers and without even touching a device...

If you want to talk N9 now, I'll refer you to all the excited gaga and hype of Palm Pre and WebOS from early 2009 to summer of that year and suggest you compare to current N9 hands-on previews.

But Tomi post was not about N9, it was about Symbian, and you are completely ignoring the huge holes in his argument that Victor and Baron exposed. I guess because those facts make your whole argument how Nokia was doing great before Elop came along to crash like a house of cards. And you'll better ignore it then face the facts

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