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« Obituary for OPK: Wall Street is a Cruel Mistress - Nokia searching for CEO | Main | The Potential for Smartphone Platforms if All Phones Become Smartphones »

July 22, 2010

Comments

Eric

Hi Tomi,

Thanks for the fast update, I was waiting for your comments! Will you make a separate article about revenues and profits, since you decided not to cover this issue in this article?

Timo Koola

Just a quick comment on N8. I pretty sure what was said about it is that it is coming out in September.

Szabolcs Horvath

"We plan to start shipping the Nokia N8, the first Symbian^3 device, towards the end of the third quarter 2010."

cycnus

Hi Tomi,

Great to read your view on Nokia Q2 earning. I just hope the american media would learn to grow up and be better.

It seems to me that the quality american journalist depleting more and more. It's really hard to believe CNN or any other journalist when they talk about non-american company or anything.

Ian Mackay

Hi Tomi,

A lot of people seem to want to talk about profits and revenue here in the comments, so I was wondering if you had any plans to write an article on why it is that market share is the key metric for success in your view?

Alex

There is a problem with this analysis. The Nokia smart phones sales are pumped up with low end S60 phones which by most people's definition are not smart phones at all.

Anders S. Løvlie

"Android grew from 5% in December to 24% global market share today." Could you tell us where the 24% number comes from? Is that your own estimate, or are you quoting someone else's figures? Just qurious. It seems high as an estimate for q2, as google said in may they were activating 100k devices a day - that is roughly the same as iphone, which had 14% in q2... the 160k number came some time in june, towards the end of the quarter.

Jan

Please list Q2 2009 as well.

Nokia's converged devices sale was up 41% YoY, Apple's iPhone sale was up 61% YoY and RIM was up 43% YoY.

The sequential change from last quarter might be larger than Apple's (many are waiting for the iPhone 4) but YoY Nokia is growing slower than the rest of the industry thus losing market share.

Phil

Hi Jan,

Here is a graphic from Reuters that shows the opposite of what you just said:

http://graphics.thomsonreuters.com/F/07/GLB_SMPHN0710.gif

kevin

Jan is right. If Nokia is correct that total smartphone sales in the quarter is 59m, then year-over-year, Nokia is off its peak of 44.5% (using IDC/Canalys numbers). Go back 2 years, Nokia is off its peak of 45.5% Go back three, four, five years, Nokia is off its peak of over 50%.

The more pertinent issue, which Tomi doesn't report on, is that Wall Street is correct that Nokia has lost the high end consumer. In its quarterlies, ,Nokia broke out N-series and E-series sales from 2006 through 4Q09, then it stopped. Why? Because it would be embarrassing to show N-series phone sales which had already dropped from 11.4m in 4Q07 to 4.6m in 4Q09, and for sure, is less than that now. So Nokia is selling more phones like Expressmusic and less N-series. That's the concern - once the brand is viewed as cheap, then it's a race to the bottom.

So Nokia's smartphones (or what they call "converged devices") is increasingly lower-end phones that compete less and less with iPhone and Android-based phones. (And that's why the Board is considering firing the CEO). For confirmation of this, Nokia reported these facts which Tomi doesn't include. Nokia's converged devices average selling price (ASP) is down to 143 euro from 181 euro, down another 21%. That's just "smartphones and mobile computers, including services and accessories sold with them" (from Nokia's press release; doesn't include Series 30/40 featurephones. Ugly. Really ugly.

Maybe Tomi can explain why Nokia can include "mobile computers" in its count (though it must be quite small), while Apple can't.

Jody

@Alex. The problem with all the Apple fanboy whining is that the price of a smartphone doesn't affect if it is a smartphone or not. It is the feature set that determines that. And get ready for the flood of USD100 smartphones from Nokia and Android based ones from China.

kevin

"Meanwhile Nokia's Ovi store is up to 13,000 items of content and apps, and is generating 1.7 million downloads per day, which is a rate of about 620M per year."

Note that Ovi store "content" includes music, video (including trailers and podcasts), themes, wallpapers, and ringtones. So that 1.7m downloads per day includes all that stuff besides apps.

For context, a month ago, Apple's App Store was averaging about 17m downloads a day and music-only was averaging about 10m downloads a day.

Timo Koola

@Kevin Ovi Store's numbers seem even more bad if you consider that Nokia is serving a bigger crowd (and not just smartphones). Let's make some assumptions (you are welcome to challenge the numbers). There are roughly 80 million devices that support iOS and they generate that 17 million downloads a day. Nokia sells 400 million devices a year. Of those perhaps half support application downloads (native, Java, Flash or widgets). So let's say that Nokia sold 400 million devices during last two years that support application downloads. To have exactly as good (or great) app store as Apple Nokia users should generate five times the downloads Apple users do. Instead they generate 1/10th of Apple's numbers. Is 1/50th of great really that good performance? With these numbers you get every Apple user downloading something every 5th day. At Nokia the number is every 250 days.

Mark

"The Nokia smart phones sales are pumped up with low end S60 phones which by most people's definition are not smart phones at all."

Really? Says who? Not the big analysts which is what matters.

If you disagree then set up your own monitoring company or write to Gartner to try and get them to change the definition. Until then they're smartphones.

"If Nokia is correct that total smartphone sales in the quarter is 59m, then year-over-year, Nokia is off its peak of 44.5% (using IDC/Canalys numbers). Go back 2 years, Nokia is off its peak of 45.5% Go back three, four, five years, Nokia is off its peak of over 50%."

Well, yes, if more competitors enter the market then they lose share. Apple weren't in the market four years ago, Android weren't there two years ago.

However for the last four quarters Nokia's share has increased.

Jan is also wrong because he ignores absolute unit sales. That's the danger of quoting relative percentages - product growth rates - out of context - total market.

"So Nokia is selling more phones like Expressmusic and less N-series."

Probably because the last N series was the N97 mini released nearly a year ago. At a stretch you could include the N900 but even that's 8 months old. These phones simply do not have the enduring cachet of the iPhone and have much shorter shelf lives.

Nokia do not have a challenger to the iPhone and high end Android sets just now. The N8 is the next one. Are you really surprised at the balance of sales?

"Note that Ovi store "content" includes music, video (including trailers and podcasts), themes, wallpapers, and ringtones. So that 1.7m downloads per day includes all that stuff besides apps."

Note that the App store includes widgets and web launchers aplenty. Also note that Nokia permit downloads from other repositories includign GetJar - the second biggest app store - for which they account for about 40% of downloads.

Come on, Kevin. If you're going to compare downloads you need to consider all available channels.

Timuke

Somehow funny how Android is measured in market share but will not make a single phone anymore.

Regarding backwards compatibility of iOS4 for 3G:

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/how-to-downgrade-iphone-ios-4-to-os-3-1-3-704705

Funny thing, my sister just walked in and is trying to call her boyfriend on the hand-me-down iPhone she got from him. Her call just got dropped 2 times in a row and then she stepped outside to get better reception. Now she just came in to borrow my E90 so she can have a normal conversation. Not implying anything, just sharing a personal experience in a regular day.

It does have a beautiful pink case though.


kevin

@Mark

My response was to Tomi's tone and criticisms, whereby he takes Apple to task and puts them in a bloodbath even though others are having serious problems as well.

So as for your comments:
"Well, yes, if more competitors enter the market then they lose share. Apple weren't in the market four years ago, Android weren't there two years ago."

Well, then, why doesn't Tomi just write that Android is the new competitor, and Apple is losing share along with everyone else (other than some Android-based phone makers, obviously)? But that's not what his articles have done.

"Nokia do not have a challenger to the iPhone and high end Android sets just now. The N8 is the next one. Are you really surprised at the balance of sales?"

I'm not surprised. Tomi is saying Wall Street is wrong, but what you wrote is exactly what Wall Street is concerned about. The lack of a challenger, and little confidence that the N8 will be a success given the experience of the past 3 years. Do you have confidence the N8 will revive the N-series line? If so, why?

kevin

At Apple's conference call, it said iPhone 3GS was up 90% year-over-year until June 7th (when they announced iPhone 4). Then it fell off a cliff for 17 days (about 1/5 of the quarter), and the iPhone 4 sales of 1.7m in the last 3 days of the quarter kept it from falling below 61% y-o-y growth.

So we have some insight into the impact of the transition on the numbers. Tomi is right that until Apple shifts to multiple models, this will continue to occur. My only point here is that one needs to be recognize what can cause these unit sales numbers to misrepresent what is actually happening.

Mark

"Do you have confidence the N8 will revive the N-series line? If so, why?"

I think it'll sell OK but nothing like the N95 did. I think the point is that Nokia have nothing compelling in that range at all at the moment.

Nokia need some credibility in this segment. The N8 needs to shift in the region of 3-5 million to do this (about the same as the HTC Desire) - it doesn't have to beat iPhone sales but it needs to show that Nokia are beginning to release competent phones at the high end.

vvaz

@kevin

For Nokia "mobile computer" is N900, for Apple it is MacBook. Can you spot 4 differences between those two and understand why Nokia can include it into their convergence devices while for Apple it is rather pitiful number tweaking?

ps. I will help you: those key differences are - width, height, thickness and weight.

kevin

@vvaz: I was just tweaking Tomi, "haha", since N900 sales are likely very small. In any case, for Apple, mobile computer is iPad 3G. Yes, it's not a phone, but will all Nokia mobile computers have to also be phones? If so, why not call them computer-phones?

On a separate but related topic: Google keeps saying they are activating 160k Android-based phones per year. My question is does that include Chinese Ophones, which are using Android, but are not really part of the Android ecosystem? Ars Technica weighs in - see here: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/07/androids-ascent-in-china-is-not-elevating-google.ars

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