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May 23, 2018

Comments

Per "wertigon" Ekström

@Murphy:

1. The Mac has seen a tremendous increase, but it is due to the iPhone being so successful, working as a gateway to draw people into the Apple ecosystem. And while it may not be the *only* factor as to why people buy them, it's a significantly *contributing* one.

These days, the single biggest reason to buy a Mac is for iOS development. Doesn't mean there aren't other reasons too, but that's the biggest.

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh#1990%E2%80%9398:_Decline_and_transition_to_PowerPC

Read it and weep.

3. Yes, a theory - or rather a hypothesis. I see you are not familiar with a scientific approach to things, where you state a hypothesis and then gather data to support said hypothesis.

My theory/hypothesis is stated, now I just need to wait on the data to tell whether I am wrong or not. :)

As for analogies with orcs and elves... Yes, I'm a Tolkien nerd, what are you going to do about it?

Huber

Advantages of Android:

- Allows to install any app, even without an app store
- Has various app stores independent of Google/ the OEM, like F-Droid or the Amazon store
- Has a real file system where apps can share files more easily
- Native split screen support
- Lets you select default apps for everything (like browser, phone, contacts, music player and whatnot)
- Lets you install the launcher of your choice

Advantages of Android phones with unlockable bootloader: Giving you root access. This makes the phone _YOUR_ phone. For example, you can
- Install a system-wide ad blocker like AdAway (yes, it blocks _ALL_ ads from _ALL_ apps)
- Select which apps start at boot
- Add features to apps (like allowing the download of Youtube content or Youtube playback in the background)
- Deinstall system apps and turn regular apps into system apps
- Install custom ROMs or even different operation systems (like Sailfish)
- Get rid of all Google services
- Do whatever you want, there are no limits

Of course it is completely valid for any user to not be interested in these features. It is also completely OK to prefer iOS over Android. In fact I would not want to live in a world where the only existing smartphone OS is Android, I'd rather have more operation systems to choose from then less.

But stating that Android has _NO_ advantages over iOS is totally retarded period.

Jim Glu

Nice post Huber. I agree. And while those particular features don't appeal to me, I was highly impressed by a young man and his Sony Android phone and the hacking he could do with it. For all intents and purposes, it was a full fledged computer in his palm.

While I have a definite preference for the iPhone....I could be happy with a top end Android phone as well. However, the extended ecosystem is all in Apple's favor. I like how my Apple Watch unlocks my Mac, and acts as a sort of remote control to my iPhone, allowing the phone to stay in my pocket more of the time. I like how I can open a browser page on my iPhone that appears in the list of pages I have open on my Mac. My Homepod sounds awesome and is integrated with the services I use.

While I believe I could be happy with an Android phone...I would REALLY hate losing my iPad.

As for Macs being only used for iOS development...that's crazy talk. I put on a hands on workshop this week. I had a handful of thumb drives with files the attendees needed (and a download link). The ENTIRE group came with Macs. Not from one company. Not students. This wasn't an iOS developer's talk. Technical people there to learn about cloud databases and all of them had Mac. I wish my latest employer supplied me with a Mac....but alas, I have a work Dell machine.

Fortunately, one person had a dongle :) I'll bring my Mac USBC-USBA dongle next time.

There is no doubt, though, that iPhones lift the sales of every other Mac product. Just like the iPhone got a huge early lift from it's iPod heritage.

Walled Garden? Garden of Eden more like it.

Per "wertigon" Ekström

@Jim:

Modern macs have a very confused market segment.

Productivity purposes:

1. CAD, 3D modelling etc - nope. Underperforming graphics cards and incompatible graphics APIs make macs a very poor fit.
2. Photos - Again, underperforming graphics hardware makes the mac play second fiddle to things like Photoshop - if a port even exists in the first place.
3. Movies - Underperforming hardware makes rendering times take a whole lot more time than they should.
4. Audio - Only USB C ports available making the Mac very lag-prone.

Gaming is also basically a no-no on macs these days, due to incompatible APIs and poor hardware.

So what's left with Macs? Office work and some software development, areas that traditionally have been strong on... PCs.

That is why I say the primarily reason to get a Mac today is iOS development. Now, people can get them for other reasons too, but they will be subpar to their PC counterparts.

Read this for more information: https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/7/13548052/the-macbook-pro-lie

BennyDover

Good grief Per.

You do not know anything about the iPhone and definitely nothing about Macs either.
Mac is Unix and you can everything with it same is with iOS.
In Mac you have Terminal and with iOS you Xcode.

You should use a Mac sometimes.
Most of the PCs sold are category around 300$ and their performance is less than what the iPhone has.

Jim Glu

Wow Per. We don't always agree...but that post was pitiful. Macs are used for all of those things. Speaking as one of the technical people that likes Mac....it's an "every software" machine. Mac is Unix (not linux, but POSIX compliant Unix), there are a lot of great software for the Mac...and you can run Windows in a vm for anything you are missing. The machines are well built, light, small (for their power), awesome screens, fantastic battery life, great memory management, high performance SSD's.

I don't work with desktop Macs, but the iMac Pro is a beast. The iMacs are no slouch either at the high end.

And the USB-C....do you not realize that it's Thunderbolt under the hood? Or what that means? It's an "every port" and sure for the time being it means you have to have a couple dongles.

I don't use Macs for everything (or most things since my job supplied me with a Windows laptop). There's always a cost/benefit you have to consider. I do a lot of server work and buy used enterprise servers to run VM farms. Apple left the server market a long time ago.

But for work laptop? I'll take a Macbook Pro, thank you very much. More and more companies are allowing their people a choice as companies like IBM have made a strong case that what you pay more upfront for a Mac is rewarded in lower total lifetime cost.

Jim Glu

How many iPhones did Apple sell on opening day? As many as possible.
How many iPhones will Apple sell on opening weekend? As many as possible.
How many iPhones will Apple sell next qtr? As many as they can make.
And the quarter after that? As many as they can make.

Per "wertigon" Ekström

@Jim:

Macs are used for all of that, yes. But so are $500 PCs!

If I buy a $1500+ computer I expect it to be able to perform similarly to an equal $1500 computer. The current crop of macs are about three times as expensive for the same performance they deliver. That is pitiful, and makes the Mac pretty unsuited for any kind of professional work in the creative industry.

And I see you guys doesn't know how USB/Lightning works. In latency-sensitive sound applications nothing beats a good old 3.5mm jack, which you would know if you were doing latency-sensitive sound. Fact is that USB currently can only reach around 20ms round trip latency period, worse if more than one USB device is connected at the same time - and many mixer applications require < 12ms round trips.

So no, sorry... 3.5mm sound jack is pretty much a necessity for fast sound. Anything else is too slow, adding too much latency.

Huber

Obviously, if you need raw processing power the Mac isn't for you.

Nothing beats the multithreading performance of a Threadripper. No Mac allows you to install 3 M2 SSDs directly connected to the CPU. No Mac has a mainboard with 64 PCIe lanes to add a bunch of number-crunshing GPGPUs of your choice.

Of course, if you build a system where the CPU alone costs $1,800 you can't come away cheap, too. But at least you get what you paid for.

BennyDover

Oh for fecks sake.

Per. Stop complaining about the bloody price. When you buy a PC you get Microsoft Windows and that itself is a major killer of productivity, performance and money.
You have to buy Windows pro ultimate special extra edition and you still can't get the same when you have macOS that is in every Mac for free.

TCO in a Mac is vastly superior to a Windows PC. You should have learned that a long time ago because you can't beat that.

BennyDover

Pros do not use 3,5mm audio jack.

BennyDover

Production machines are expensive. 15000€ for a Pro Mac is nothing. Extras for that is another 15000€ and that is nothing. Those machines make money. Pro people do not complain about the price of a Mac because of Windows machines are unusable. Windows machines have way too many problems.

Per "wertigon" Ekström

@Benny:

No, agreed, audio pros use a dedicated soundcard with a number of ports hooked up to an FPGA chip for real signal processing. Which, unfortunately, also doesn't exist on a Mac. :)

But the Mac is still an inferior choice for most production use cases due to the lack of OpenCL and other widely available productivity APIs. Final Cut Pro only manage to keep up with Premiere because Apple has secret or obscure proprietary APIs that do the same thing - but if Premiere for Mac would use these specific APIs, or even if there was a Windows driver available that allowed for the same thing, well... Premiere would have the same rendering speed on Mac, and 3x the rendering speed on a much more powerful PC.

As it stands though it's a 30-40% difference for the same price. That's hours of productivity lost in a week. Imagine what Apple could do with even a modest nVidia CUDA core.

Here is one Apples-to-Apples comarison if ya don't believe me: https://www.slrlounge.com/lightroom-mac-vs-pc-speed-test-4k-imac-vs-4k-custom-pc-performance-test/

And here is one video of an Apple fan dissapointed in the latest iPhone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXOTpBDsBhc

BennyDover

@Per

What are you talking about? Mac OS has OpenCL. OpenCL works on top of the Metal.
You see Metal works on top of the ”Metal”. It is that low-level thing.

I am constantly looking for options to replace the Adobe $hit.

With Windows you lose hours of productivity every day. With Android, it is even worse. You lose productivity every hour because you are interrupted by the ads.

Per "wertigon" Ekström

@Benny:

LOL you have clearly never used paid software in either Android or Windows. We can end the discussion here. :)

Jim Glu

People use Macs for audio and video production. You don’t know what you are talking about

Per "wertigon" Ekström

@Jim:

Yes, people use Linux for A/V editing too. Neither are top picks for the pro market - a Windows PC is. 'Nuff said.

BennyDover

”Every other chip maker (not outed as rank amateurs) on the planet just shit their collective pants.

David Heinemeier Hansson, the creator of Ruby on Rails and founder and CTO at Basecamp, via Twitter:

The iPhone XS is faster than an iMac Pro on the Speedometer 2.0 JavaScript benchmark. It’s the fastest device I’ve ever tested. Insane 45% jump over the iPhone 8/X chip. How does Apple do it?!

Yes, you read that right.

The iPhone XS is faster than an iMac Pro on the Speedometer 2.0 JavaScript benchmark. It's the fastest device I've ever tested. Insane 45% jump over the iPhone 8/X chip. How does Apple do it?! ✨”

https://macdailynews.com/2018/09/23/apples-iphone-xs-is-faster-than-an-imac-pro-on-the-speedometer-2-0-javascript-benchmark/

BennyDover

@Per

Android and Windows both lose when we talk about productivity. Linux on the desktop is for masochists.

Per "wertigon" Ekström

@Benny:

Never used a Linux system (as opposed to merely toying around with it) either, I see. Do this challenge and come back in a year! :) https://forum.level1techs.com/t/1-year-linux-challenge/74682

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