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« News from the Smartphone Front: Blackberry Results, other news | Main | Nokia Q2 Analysis - This is Textbook Comprehensively Failed Strategy in Numbers »

July 18, 2013

Comments

Sam

@Mike the problem really comes down to the brands and their image. It's not that people hate Nokia, it's that people hate Microsoft, and as Nokia has partnered with Microsoft the hate will also come down to Nokia's devices. That's the way it goes when you do a co-branding and here we have the worst case scenario in real life.

"Considering that Nokia makes great hardware, if Elop had chosen Android it is not difficult to imagine that they could have 10% of the Android share, selling 18M smartphones per quarter." With this option Nokia wouldn't have the co-branding problem and would probably do lot better right now.

We can also see the same problem in PC-industry, PC sells are going down, but it's not because of PC manufacturers, it's because of Microsoft and Windows.

As has been pointed out that Nokia has to live with this problem for 3 more years (if it lasts that long) because of the agreement with Msoft.. Hopefully after that Nokia is still there and could provide consumers some other OS.

jj

WP third ecosystem? No way! After NSA scandal no one outside USA wants another closed US based OS. World needs open system as third ecosystem, not even Android is open enough.

vladkr

@Mike :

Nokia USED to have great designers, Nokia USED to have great engineers, Nokia USED to have great builders, but they either fired them, or let them go.

Now recycling N9 design year after year, using 2 years old technos don't tell us much about competence in design at Nokia right now.

As about WP, even Bill Gates admit it as a failure. Microsoft is already preparing a new version from scratch. Will Nokia have enough time/cash to survive until this saviour version of WP? Could be, but I'm not quite sure.

Maybe WP is a brilliant platform, and Lumia a brilliant band, but for some reasons, most people in the world prefer other brand/OSes... maybe that's because most people in the world are stupid and don't know what's good.

ejvictor

@Mike, @ vladkr... the state of Nokia's R&D


Devices & Services non-IFRS research and development expenses decreased 37% year-on-year in the second quarter
2013. On a sequential basis, Devices & Services non-IFRS research and development expenses decreased 8% in the
second quarter 2013. The year-on-year decline was primarily due to reductions in certain Mobile Phones-related activities, ramping down Symbian and MeeGo research and development efforts and overall cost controls

Baron99

@ALL,

I see that Elop & Balmer already pop the champagne and declaring that they manage to be the THIRD ecosystem/platform/OS/whatever. But in BB defense, if we compare nokia 1st and 2nd quarter of WP8 (or WP7) to BB. BB is in a better situation.
(I really miss Mrs. Baron95. LOL)

But,
Does any of this really matter?
Does it really matter to be number 3 in two horse race?
Both WP (nokia) and BB were bleeding to death.

But.... again....
Even apple were starting to see the Cliff.
3 Russian operator were quitting the relationship from apple (read: removing the apple parasite).
1 American operator were reported having the hard time to clear the iphone stock, and will soon dump the phone and I think it will dump the iphone into the market with heavy subsidies if apple refuse to renegotiate... in which will ruin apple product value.

vladkr

@Baron99 :

The fact Russian operators quit Apple won't have much consequence : at $900 for a 16Gb IP5, they didn't sell many anyway. There are iPhones in Russia, most from grey market + some vendors selling exclusive (gold-plated, leather, wood, etc.)

Now, I'm curious to see how fore coming OSs (Ubuntu, Firefox, Tizen, Sailfish) will affect the market.

foo

@jj "WP third ecosystem? No way! After NSA scandal no one outside USA wants another closed US based OS. World needs open system as third ecosystem, not even Android is open enough."

That's absolutely true!

Tomi always said that carriers hate Skype.

Now governments and companies around the world also distrust Skype because of the information that NSA could wiretap foreign calls.

Another blow against Windows Phone.

AndThisWillBeToo

"Now governments and companies around the world also distrust Skype"

...which still runs on all platforms (PC and Mobile) and is in no way tied to WP success as Microsoft has kept it as separate business entity. If governments and companies want to avoid Skype, having Androids, BB10s and iPhones does not solve anything.

BabelHuber

To state that WP has any advantage for Nokia is just funny.

WP is an OS for people who do not care about the OS' features or App availability.

If you want Apps, you need to use iOS or Android.

If you care about such stuff like open Bootloaders, being admin, having a real file system with a real file browser etc., you need Android.

What does WP have so that people would want to own it? Tiles? But you can also have tiles on Android...

Nokia tries to get an advantage by providing HW features likcamera technology, and this also is the only thing they can do.

A Samsung Galaxy S4 looks different from a HTC Android device (Touchwiz vs. Sense), while HTC and Nokia WP8-phones can only be distinguished by the logo.

RedBaron

@jj

Yes, Edward Snowden, PRISM and whole SNA scandal is not a small thing. People and goverments are real pissed off now in Europe. A new cold war may be closer than one thinks...
How about China? Do they let US companies (Google, Apple, Microsoft) rule SW development and control mobile scene for next decades? Don't thing so. All cards are not on the table yet.

Tester

@MrPetzold:

>> @Tester: Nokia's losses are decreasing, not increasing. Remains to be seen how much Lumia 925 & 1020 will change ASP upwards.

Losses are losses. Nokia still doesn't make any profit from selling smartphones.

How should that change with new devices that are merely re-iterations of their already relased top device with slightly different specs? And don't overrate the camera. The average consumer doesn't need that.

What Nokia really could use is something that can compete with the Galaxy 4, i.e. quad/octa core and full HD screen. But look: They can't due to the restrictions in their OS. They are essentially shut out from the top end of the market.

vladkr

@RedBaron:

The PRISM and similar other projects have interesting consequences. I know Russian government is developing a Linux-based home-brewed OS, as no trust is possible with commercial OSs (nothing new here).

How many other government/public services will turn their back to MS-Windows, and what will be the consequences on Microsoft in the middle term ?

That also means new mobile OSes have real chance to challenge the big ones.

AndThisWillBeToo

It is rather ironic that Chinese OEMs (Huawei, ZTE, Yulong) are using Android as PRISM-wise Google is just as guilty as M$ and Apple. Chinese government should have pushed them to use Symbian (open source) or MeeGo (open source) instead. They may switch to Sailfish, though. Tizen is too risky due to Intel (US) cooperation and South Korean (close US ally) influence.

Tester

Why is Android dangerous? The OS itself is open source and the Google stuff is not installed on Chinese phones. So, no risk from hidden spyware - in the open source stuff it'd be easy to find by skilled programmers anyway.

The danger with PRISM lies elsewhere, namely web based services. Alternative OSs won't help with that at all.

James Q

Contrary to the obvious paid shills from Microsoft stalking this site's comment section, the plain fact is that Windows Phone is going nowhere. In fact, without the cash reserves (life support) of Microsoft this 'strategic partnership' would have gone kaput long ago.

And please do not say that Microsoft is playing 'the long game', or future products from Microsoft is going to get better. Ballmer's recent reorg announcement indicates that he is still as clueless as ever. He's still surrounded by the same bunch of nincompoops (e.g. Julie Larson-Green, Kevin Turner), and he (Steve Ballmer) hasn't yet removed the biggest problem - himself - from the job of CEO for Microsoft.

It's going to get worse. Too bad Nokia had to be dragged down to hell in this mess.

Fernando

as you can see even the author has found no more words to bash Nokia, posted the results and twisted the facts. The real fact is Nokia is selling more W phones quarter after quarter, another fact is Microsoft needs Nokia 85%+ more than when the deal was signed when Nokia market share was zip.

Nokia is Windows phone, with little more time either Nokia breaks even and makes a profit or is bought at a PREMIUM by Microsoft and I mean a PREMIUM not a couple of bucks from today's price in the mean time the last thing a Nokia shareholder needs to worry about is either the company running out of options and/or money.

winter

If so many people are going through the trouble writing a comment to tell us we should not read Tomi, he mist have made a good point.

Rodrigo

I can't stand the shills' excuse, "Nokia went with WP because they needed a third ecosystem" -- well damnit, they OWNED the third ecosystem: MeeGo was a wiser choice in every way. This is what angers people, they killed a likely winner to embrace an also-ran.

MrPetzold

@Fernando: Exactly !
Many of us Nokia shareholders bought shares when Nokia was €2 (or even €1.5). We are already winning nicely.

Now, like you said, 3 options:
A) Nokia gets phone business back to profit (very close already) --> share price jumps
B) Microsoft buys Nokia's phone business at a premium of 3x, leaving profitable nsn --> share price jumps
or C) A combination of A & B (Nokia phone business returns to profitability, THEN Microsoft buys it at a premium price, leaving profitable nsn) --> Jackpot !

Very nice time to be a Nokia shareholder :-)

winter

Nice try. Tomi believes Nokia was a giant going down, but still a giant that could get up again. But Elop put Nokia on crack, and now all is lost.

The trolls accuse Tomi of not admittin Nokia was a terminal alcaholic (Symbian). And therefore Elop did the right thing to force Nokia to switch to crack. (WP)

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