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September 05, 2012

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Comments

Michal Synacek

Well, I love Nokia's of old, especially the E52 and the E6, so it would be great to see a phone with a real keyboard. However, from my perspective as a consumer, the new Nokias look very, very tempting. Nokia is still undefeated when it comes to great off-line maps, the design is excellent and the wireless charging is very cool. In fact I like the new Nokias so much, that I may actually buy one these despite Windows 8 (I loved the old "open" Nokia systems plus I'm a Linux guy) and disliking Elop in general a lot. I think the new phones are a big win for Nokia and I personally love them.

Jojo

WP-sales in China actually seems to be increasing quite well. And Nokia has over 75% of WP-market.

http://vdisk.weibo.com/s/bHlEk

Interesting is that only 4% of WP-devises are Nokias sold by China Telecom. Rest is retail.

If report is accurate, Nokia has sold over 300 000 Lumias in China during Q3. This means

a) Elpos comment about China being largest WP-market is accurate
b) Nokia has definately sold a lot more Lumias than 400 000 during Q3.

I am pretty sure they ment until end of Q2 when they said 7 million sold Lumias.


HCE

Let us address some of the points you have raised.

1. Regarding lack of Xenon flash. It isn't as if this is incredibly tough to implement technology. Mobile phones do not generally use Xenon flash because it is a battery hog. The PureView phone with its photography emphasis is an exception to the rule - it is quite likely that for the forseeable future, most smartphones will continue to use LED flash and not Xenon. In other words, lack of Xenon flash is no big deal.

2. Regarding lack of other features such as video out - yes, Windows Phone is going to lag in specs for a while more. It is after all, a new operating system. Everytime a new OS is introduced into the market, it will almost certainly be missing some feature that the established operating systems had. The iPhone was missing a lot of features when it was first introduced. Now - 5 years later, it has caught up in many areas but there are still a few areas where it hasn't. That has not prevented it from selling in huge numbers. In the end, a new platform will succeed if can bring some compelling positives to the table that will allow users to overlook its shortcomings. It is too early to tell. However, constantly beating them over the head because of their lack of spec parity is belaboring the obvious.

3. Your point regarding the PureView brand is well taken. I think it was a mistake to dilute the brand so soon. For the brand to have any value, it should be reserved for photography-centric phones like the 808 with high megapixel count cameras.

4. I also completely agree with your take on the the Lumia 900s lack of upgradability. Obsoleting a platform within 6 months of introducing it is criminal.

- HCE

AtTheBottomOfTheHilton

You're really quick commenting on the Microsoft Event, keyboards must be a wearing part for you.

My personal reaction is that this is a re-run of the Windows Phone 7.5 launch. Nokia and Microsoft stirred up the expectations but delivered a mediocre product. This time it is Windows Phone 8 which is more mature and a little more support but still behind all other OSes. The hardware from Nokia is not bad but not great either, just like last time. Despite of SD-card support in Windows 8, Nokia leaves it out. Nokia also decided not to include an HDMI out which most top tier Android phones has today. They also abuse their own PureView brand. In short, Nokia and Microsoft are still behind competition and the phones still look more like a feature phone compared to the feature packed Androids or the Aesthetics of an iPhone. They simply can't keep up and Microsoft rather slows Nokia down than helping them due Microsoft limitations.

Sales numbers, well I think this phone will not sell worse that the previous iteration but about the same. Maybe a generous 15 million in a year. Initial sales will not that bad if they hit Christmas market but it will rapidly decline as more people find out that the Lumias are very limited in several ways.

Same old story, Ballmer and Elop is beating the same old dead horse they have done for several years now. Microsoft much earlier than that with Zune.

Last chance for Nokia or Microsoft? I don't know, this is like an old cartoon where every episode is about the same. Next we will hear "it will be better in Windows Phone 8.x".

jo

http://t.co/PZ0dMTeO pureview video is fake too.

they probably dont even have real IOS working on the 920, camera.

JJ

Original Lumia design was much better than these new models (IMHO). Why did they change it?

TimoT

Mr. Elop is an arrogant Canadian, acting like a moose in china chop. He is also, typical for many Canadians, obsessed with US markets. Nothing else matters.

US markets have been Nokia's weakest point anyway for over a decade and it did not even matter. It should not matter now either. Nokia was strong pretty much everywhere else until this moose turd showed up. 310 million Americans are not that much when we talking about India or China or EU with 450 million.

Now everything is put to conquer this one market with huge expenses and even that is failing miserably. How the fuck one man can be so idiotic. It is like listening a real lousy karaoke singer night after night in a bar because he pays the owner some money. Except the owner is actually losing more and more money due to fewer customers.

Naikon

Most of the N9 nokias was delivered with 16Gb. 64Gb versions was priced extremely.

Naikon

Nokia 820 looks like a twin of Xiaomi Mi-Two. Design is the same. The size is the same. Colors are almost the same. It looks like the engineers of Pegatron corp used the same design for both Nokia and Xiaomi (Mi-Two actually beats Lumia 820).

tired

Great post again. As you pointed out, wp8 is a brand new OS with as little support as any other new OS. So how did the decision to go wp8 rather than the old upgrade Qt route benefit Nokia? In my opinion, harmattan route would have got Nokia started a year before and the transition would be faster as Nokia would be keeping it's existing customers instead of shooing them away.
Now with Samsung confirmed getting into the wp8 arena, Nokia is going to lose sales to them, cutting down numbers for Nokia, hence cutting profits.
end result, Nokia loses anyway.
I agree Tomi, idiot elop

Naikon

I don't think that Elop is incompetent! He is absolutely competent in what he is doing. The reason you think he is incompetent is that you misunderstand his goals. He effectively removed any possibility for Nokia to come back to the MeeGo track. He is constantly promoting WindowsPhone, and he sounds like he is still Microsoft employee and he doesn't try to hide it, he is openly play for Microsoft team, he is giving all for that team. Don't you see it? He manages Nokia as if it was a part of Microsoft (which it really is today). So he is competent. He just plays another game.

zlutor

Lack of HDMI output might not be so serious issue IF wifi and DLNA are supported.
Just like in case of N9...

zlutor

What about the event itself? Presenters were catastrophic. All of them but especially Kevin. :-(

Comeback event? C'mon. Funeral instead... :-(

Naikon

There is a reason why Nokia is unable to satisfy the heavy demand of the 808 Pureview. The same reason why Nokia N9 was hold away from major markets. The same reason why Nokia 600 (a very special affordable loud-and-proud phone) was discontinued. The reason is that Elop don't want to sell those to the customers. Customers supposed to buy Lumia. Anything that can lead customers away from Lumia must be eliminated at all cost.

Naikon

@Michal Synacek
You better wait and see what Jolla Mobile will come up with. The hardware design and manufacturing will be surely done in Asia, probably on the same factory as for Lumia or iPhone. But it will run MeeGo (hopefully even better than Harmattan).

Naikon

@JJ
Design is not an "original Lumia". It's original Nokia N9 Lankku design, Lumia is just hijacked it.

Tom

What happened to the great exclusive partnerships that Nokia was talking about a few weeks ago? This would have been the day to announce them. Whoops.

Poifan

@zlutor: Nokia provides "Play To" DLNA app for Lumia. Works great with photos and videos.

General comments:
- How does a phone comparison not mention the fact that the 920 has 2x the screen pixels as the 900 or N9 and 4x that of the 808?
- How does a phone comparison not mention the fact that the 920 has a dual core CPU (mind you the 900 was less laggy than the N9 or 808 already)?
- How does a phone comparison just compare cameras by megapixel and flash type (920 has bigger aperture, image stabilization and 2x power LED flash)?

I think the 920 will be more like the N8 than 808. Best in class camera for real world use without the bulk of the 808 (which is a niche product, not a flagship, it's just too big).

bjarneh

the main problem here is that this is a strategy that was clearly made at a point in time when they thought that the lumia series would succeed, after all this is more about refining the lumia, than rethinking it.

IMO these phones miss the mark in 3 ways.

1. heavy and bulky (200 grams)
2. the all-screen-design does not work when you add the Windows buttons
3. Nokia off-line maps are in some sense old news (the N8 has them)

Nokia clearly does not even dare compete against their own cellphones (N9/N950 etc.), how on earth are they going to win against the iPhone and Android?

only 4 smart-phones have i seen people "preach" about to their friends, i.e. try to "sell" even though they were not salesmen

1. iPhone
2. HTC Desire
3. Samsung Galaxy II
4. Nokia N9

that's it, these phones all have an it factor. 1, 2 and 3 all have about the same size and weight, handy to drag around, but still useful for surfing the web, angry birds etc. the amoled screen on the Galaxy II, and it's super light weight made it desirable as well; even though it is a bit bulky.

the investors today said what we all thought, the stock is down 15.9% in one day, if these phones + the "Asha" line is all they have going, it's time to pack it up..

Sander van der Wal

Andrew Orlowski of The Register likes it: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2012/09/05/handson_nokia_lumia_920_windows_phone_8/

m

It doesn't matter what specs old Nokia phones had. They've been killed and Lumia no longer has to compete with them. Elop and gang should face criminal charges but that's beside the point for Nokia's future --- it won't bring them back from the brink of collapse.

The 920 seems to have a decent camera. It could push Lumia to the head of the pack in *one* feature at least. We'll have to wait to see what the other new phones are like this season, and for reviewer comparisons. I'm so used to Elop chasing after last year's competition that I'm surprised by this.

People may choose the 920 over an ATIV because:
- They want a better camera (low light, image stabilization).
- People who want WP8 are often Android haters who may also be Samsung haters.
Other people may choose ATIV because:
- Removable battery.
- Micro SD port.
- Will probably be cheaper.

So I think that Nokia has a fair shot at a decent share of the WP market. I think it remains to be seen whether WP8 on a whole will succeed or not. I think it's a long shot, but I don't think the 920 is already a failure on its own. If MS can change popular opinion to "WP is no longer hated" and "WP can compete with other OSes" then Nokia might still have a hope of eking out a meagre survival.

tl;dr Elop's failures have probably already ruined Nokia, but today's announcements don't make it worse. Note: the stock plunge suggests that investors disagree, but I already had low expectations for Nokia and they exceeded those low low expectations.

vladkr

I have few comments about all this :

- Nokia 808 PV = 41mpix, Lumia 920 = 8.something mpix : where's the Wow effect Nokia promised to Samsung and to us ?

- Lumia 920 and Samsung ATIV characteristics are quite similar, is it due to OS limitations ?

- when looking at the event's re-transcription, Stephen Elop doesn't seem to be sure about his answers (will the new Lumia come to China, what will be available there and there)... is he the Boss or just Nokia's janitor ? To me a CEO should be aware of his company's plans, and show some strength and confidence (to partners), especially during such a turbulent time.

- if the new devices were revealed today in NYC, what will Nokia show to partners in Helsinki at the end of the month ? The same phones everyone knows (and is already disappointed) about ? How will the partners appreciate that ?

vladkr

Last comment (sorry for the double-post, my memory fails sometimes) :

Have you noticed there is no Finn anymore at Nokia to demonstrate cellphones ?

Me

At least the 820 has a microSD card slot... I hope it works... I hope the bluetooth works...
I cannot believe I ended up questioning the usability of nokias' bluetooth in 2012, something taken for granted since... ever.
I cannot believe I have to go to a store and actually try the damn thing just to be sure...
This is madness.

Hoista

You need to update the chart - 808 Pureview does support NFC

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    Tomi Ahonen is a bestselling author whose twelve books on mobile have already been referenced in over 100 books by his peers. Rated the most influential expert in mobile by Forbes in December 2011, Tomi speaks regularly at conferences doing about 20 public speakerships annually. With over 250 public speaking engagements, Tomi been seen by a cumulative audience of over 100,000 people on all six inhabited continents. The former Nokia executive has run a consulting practise on digital convergence, interactive media, engagement marketing, high tech and next generation mobile. Tomi is currently based out of Hong Kong but supports Fortune 500 sized companies across the globe. His reference client list includes Axiata, Bank of America, BBC, BNP Paribas, China Mobile, Emap, Ericsson, Google, Hewlett-Packard, HSBC, IBM, Intel, LG, MTS, Nokia, NTT DoCoMo, Ogilvy, Orange, RIM, Sanomamedia, Telenor, TeliaSonera, Three, Tigo, Vodafone, etc. To see his full bio and his books, visit www.tomiahonen.com Tomi Ahonen lectures at Oxford University's short courses on next generation mobile and digital convergence. Follow him on Twitter as @tomiahonen. Tomi also has a Facebook and Linked In page under his own name. He is available for consulting, speaking engagements and as expert witness, please write to tomi (at) tomiahonen (dot) com

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