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« Nokia Q2 Results: Bad bad and will be even more bad | Main | If Apple is running away from this strategy, and Samsung growing by opposite strategy, why is Elop trying 'exclusive' carrier strategy for Nokia and Microsoft. He must be mad! »

July 20, 2012

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Comments

jo

windows phone is not being sold here in latin america in thousands


no operator in here in taking it,


claro was selling pink n9 for a while. that its. but no lumia-


many of those "million" are not sold, they may even carry dust on a warehouse forever.

Tizastatico

I am in the Lat. Am. area and the Lumias where pushed very strongly. Microsoft also has a very nice strategy for app development with the push of MSDN. We actually have a way to study for a "professional mobile developers" title and they use Microsoft tools (guess which OS they target).

However the prices for Lumias devices rose 50% after the launch and the sales are now flat cause the Android devices are much better and far cheaper.

jo

@Tizastatico

not true in all central america, mexico and venezuela.

carrier like movistar, claro are not taking lumias.


at this rate sony , is going to be selling more smartphones than nokia in q4 2012

Tizastatico

@jo:

But i can see in Telcel.com Lumia 710 and Lumia 610, with Telcel holding a market share of 77% for Mexico.

In central america TIGO is the strongest one. I know they dont sell Lumia in Colombia, but they are the smallest one here (12% of the market). Claro Colombia and Movistar Colombia, both sell Lumias, but they are much expensive after the initial launch.

Interested to know

"What is wrong with your brain Mr Elop !!!"
LOL.

Doesn't Finland have something like the US SEC?

Vinicius

Nokia is spending a TON in ads in Brazil (Biggest Latin American Country).

BUT, I don't see any being sold or used.

I don't know a SINGLE person who bought a Lumia. Instead I think Apple has like 50~60% of the Smartphone market (that is at least 50% bigger than reported, due to illegal importation) and Android has about 30% with the rest to Symbian. Others not even blinking in the radar.

Those 900K MUST be stuck in warehouses. And with the price they are trying to push, they'd better buy new warehouses...

PhoneBoy

To be fair, I did run into a single person using a Lumia in the real world. They liked it. But in reality, all I see of most people's phones is iPhone this, Android that, or the occasional dumbphone.

So I wonder who, if anyone, is buying these Lumia devices.

m

> Doesn't Finland have something like the US SEC?

I wonder too: What will it take to get Elop and the board investigated? Can people do something to get this going? Petition, raise awareness etc???

Vinicius

One thing to note here.

If I read this correctly, the CFO said they have about 285M USD on warehouse stocked components, right?

Isn't it right to assume the distributors have a healthy amount of stock, and that's why Nokia didn't turn these components into phones?

If that's right, then the number of SHIPPED phones is even more meaningless.


I guess we will find out next quarter, because if this is true then Nokia will make/ship a very small amount of phones.

tired


Mr. Bean for Nokia CEO. Couldn't Hurt.

P

This is VERY SIMPLE. Elop doesn't work for Nokia, he is working for Microsoft and Microsoft is using Nokia to market Windows 8 while the worst competitor is destroyed.
Nokia has the dumbest board ever, or they have been manipulated in some way.

Jussi

You wrote: As we saw in recent analysis, the US campaign cost 450 dollars per Lumia sold, for a return of 45 dollars per device. That is not a viable business in anyone's book

You know this is untrue. Nokia surely got more than 45 dollars per device. Only manufacturing costs are more than 200 (Euros or Dollars, I do not recall). Also Microsoft and AT&T contributed to marketing efforts.

vladkr

I have a strange feeling about all this story. In one hand, we could see in the 60s that apes could fly spaceships, in another hand we see a guy, who has a MBA from a well reputed Canadian university ruin Finland's flagship making mistakes a kid would understand.

I wonder what could Nokia's current state would be, if it had an ape, or even a plant (a ficus) at its head instead of Elop. I guess it wouldn't be that bad.

To sum up : Nokia doesn't manufacture anything any more (devices are made by Compal and Fly mobile), it doesn't develop the OS (Microsoft does it)... it doesn't make its own components like Samsung does for instance, and it sold (gave almost for free in fact) most of its patents.

How is it supposed to earn money?

By the way, Elop fired several thousands of workers to save money, but also hired directors who earn almost as much as all the poor guys who have to find a new job and who had to change their, and theirs families' lives ? What's the point in that ?

Elop is more a hidden son of Kim Jong Il with some African dictator than an East-European Party general secretary. How can he stay in Finland ? How can he face people in Finland with no shame ?

Jamie

Elop has destroyed Nokia: sales, workforce, manufacturing, and now busy detroying the brand through a failed strategy and marketing hogwash. Of course he will walk away when his job is perfected. Even now, in the face of poor results his paymasters continue to hamm the line that Nokia was in decline when he took over.
What is surprising and worrying is that the Finnish Govt/parliament does not take an interest on this case. It does not hold even one enquiry to find out what went wrong in their largest and flagship company. Many Finnish people loosing their jobs not to mention pension schemes and local governments funds going to waste. There are many questions that Finnish people would like answers to for example why close manufacturing in Finland but move it to Argentina. If mistakes were made by Elops predecessors let him tell the parliamentary enquiry.

Anonymous

Apart from the opinion of this blog's author, there is OBJECTIVE evidence that the current CEO of NOKIA is acting according to some agenda which is not the best interest of NOKIA as a company, or its shareholders.
At the same time, there is a deafening silence on the part of the Board of Directors of NOKIA.
Regardless of whether Elop is just too stupid, too incompetent, a saboteur, or a common criminal, the status quo should be changed before it is too late (maybe it is already too late).

Consequently, the question is: what laws in Finland (or elsewhere, where shares of NOKIA are traded) can be used to change the situation.
Can the readers and posters on this blog can provide a realistic legal path to change the situation?

A non-Finn, non-shareholder of NOKIA, but anti-stupidity and anti-criminal anonymous poster.

P910i...

@Tomi - thanks for the analysis.

Minor correction: T-Mobile Germany didn't stop all Lumia offerings, though they rejected the Lumia 900. T-Mobile still seems to have a healthy supply of Lumia 710 and 800, and are now offering an Xbox 360 with a 24 month mobile contract, and include one of older Lumias for free.... ;-)

Mark

@vinicius

How is the attitude of people in Brazil to buying a Microsoft product? There seems to be a love/hate relationship with Microsoft (and the US in general). Owning a US product is a status symbol but people resent the political and economic power wielded by the US in Latin America.

So for example I know people who rather than using free software will use cracked MS products - because the US product is "best" and not paying for it is a poke in the eye for Uncle Sam.

If that is a common dynamic in Brazil, it could be affecting the uptake of Windows Phone either positively or negatively.

Another dynamic is Brazilians' love of novelty and of branded products, versus the very high cost of these devices in relation to earning power.

Miguelo

There is still one key person in Nokia: Marko Ahtisaari. His designs will catapult Nokia to success when the time is right. If there is a counterpart in Apple who is at the same level it is Jonathan Ive.

Well see Nokia rising!

TimoT

This Canadian Demolition Derby is truly trying to achieve the world record in Company Destruction (Did I say he is from CANADA!). Customers are screaming Linux and even Symbian based phones would sell much more than Windows crap but this Elop just keep on elopping towards the cliff at ever-increasing speed. I am thus starting a boycott against whatever hell Canadians are nowadays exporting, like...moose meat and timber? :)

Plus the forrest gumpy like board of directories who are totally clueless. One of them is from Norwegian state oil company Statoil, one from a paper mill company (Stora Enso) and one even from cosmetic industry (L'Oreal). Yeah, I can clearly see great synergy and Zen like wisdom of choosing those jokers to a MOBILE PHONE company board!

Jamie

The Nokia shareholders tried to oust Elop already in 1st Quater 2011 but the then EB stopped that. With Nokia key employees leaving in droves, there is little hope for the company. Nokia does not have the X years required to build a third ecosystem as fronted by Stephen Elop. In fact, Elops only strategy now is to make Nokia a high street shop for Microsoft's phone products.

Time for Finnish government or the parliament to appoint an enquiry onto Nokia's recent activities.

Some questions for refference..
First question, does Nokia's collaboration with Microsoft violate stock market regulations on Fair Trading and competition ? There are strong grounds to suggest that the co-operation violates fair trading rules, as Nokia is more than an OEM for microsoft products.
Secondly, market status of Nokia before Elop assumed office; who were the share holders and how that composition changed before OPK's removal from office ? What were the market conditions that prompted Elop's appointment ? And the decision itself, who made the decision and what legal framework was used in his appointment ? You don't just pick a CEO from the competition while he maitains shares and loyalty to former employer.
Thirdly, Elop's activites as Nokia CEO and team he has brought in to the EB of Nokia. Who are Elop's appointees, their activities in the past and role in Nokia. Has Elop always worked in the best interest of Nokia as a company, its shareholders and its customers ?
Fourthly, Elop's activities as Nokia's CEO, the leaked memo and other leaks, what was his role in these leaks ? What was done to find those that leaked the memo and subsequent leaks including the "something special to happen on September 7th"? What was Elop's role if any on the leaks from Nokia ? Are these leaks a result of new company policy under Elop ?
Fifth, current staus of Nokia finances. There is reason to believe the results shared for 2nd Quater and overestimated. What are the actual Nokia results and what is state of the Nokia Patents, assets and financial health ?
Fifth, Nokia's contract with Microsoft where quote "Nokia is also tied into Microsoft on a long-term contract, restricting Nokia's ability to ditch the Redmond-based software giant and adopt any more popular or cheaper alternatives". Which members of the EB negotiated this contract ? Was this contract agreed before or after Elop's move to Nokia ?

There is reason to believe that illegalities have taken place. In UK or US Elop would have been fired and legal proceeding initiated against him for acting against his company's best interests. He has publicly accepted that "They Nokia leadership (but I'd rather say Elop as he is captain of the ship) got their strategy wrong". But this was no honest human mistake but there has been a conscious, deliberate, and sequential policy, plan to destroy the company from within.

This is why the Finnish Givernment and Parliament need to investigate Nokia board to get to the bottom of what has happened. Finnish people deserve to know why their community has been hit thus, loss of employment, pensions and local authorities put at risk.

vladkr

MIguelo:
I'm sorry if I'll disappoint you, but Marko Ahtisaari didn't do anything special. N9 was already designed when he became "head of design" at Nokia, and then, all he did is accept Compal to put qualcomm hardware (for WP) in a N9 body for the Lumia 800/900. Lumia 710/610 ? Just a clone of Samsung Focus... nothing to be proud of.

Unfortunately, Marko is as useless as the rest of executives that have been hired lately.

There is still two things that shock me :

At Walmart (or any supermarket), if a cashier makes a $1 or $2 mistake, (s)he has to refund from his/her salary to compensate the mistake. If the mistake is repeated, the employee is fired.

At Nokia, a guy is paid 6M Euros a year (and I'm sure he has an army of accountants to make him sure he will pay a minimum amount of taxes) and he makes mistake after mistake. His salary is maintained, and he still is not fired. That I don't understand (why not taking example of Steve Jobs who used to be paid only through his stock options ?)

About Finland... what can government do against a private company? They already do what can be done, like a refund of subsidies Nokia got (Romania, Germany, Finland)... but that's it. Nokia isn't state owned, so state power is limited.

Vinicius

@Mark

You're right, here piracy is sometimes taken as a kick in the nuts of the USA, but this attitude and mentality is more disseminated on the lower economic population. A population that wasn't going to buy a smartphone anyway.

The richer tend to aspire to things made in the USA, Europe and Japan. Apple, for instance, is considered God made a product. Microsoft is mostly well respected.

Nokia is still considered the better built unit, that lasts longer, has better battery life and camera, but still people like more cores and more apps.

I don't think any preconceived notion about MS is affecting WP sales, no. I think that, if anything, MS reputation should help it gain traction where it needs.

Kenny

Tomi, don't forget that Nokia gave a free Lumia 900 to each AT&T employee. It was reported that Nokia spent US$25 million on this. How many phones is that? Based on $250 per phone that comes to 100,000 units. Surely that should take down AT&T sales by a couple of notches?

CN

@Kenny

You are serious, aren't you?

So, all those increased revenues (+38% Q-o-Q, +45% Y-o-Y) in North America (Devices & Services) came through what? Oh yes, IPR's of course.

Simple question to many of the guys around here. Why do you assume that whenever there are costs associated to entry efforts, Nokia is the only one carrying those?

JK

Tomi's blog on the Elop/Nokia mess is not only spot on right but the predictions have been scary right.
The biggest mistake Nokia's board did was not elevating Anssi Vanjoki to the CEO role and instead going with the incompetent Elop. Where would Nokia's sales be if Anssi had been promoted?
-Symbian sales would be migrating to Meego in mass. The ability to port all your apps through QT developement would have ensured it.
-Meego N9 would be the flagship phone for every carrier in EMEA & APAC. N.A. operators would have jumped on it by now with the promise of a 41 megapix camera coming to the lineup.
-Symbian price points could have been driven low enough (because the volume and scale would still be second to none)to compete and hold share against low price Android.
-Carrier relationships wouldn't have been toasted. Anssi was a master at carrier relationships, Elop? He is still trying to "understand" and "learn what it takes" to appease the carriers. WTF!?
-Symbian was most carrier frinedly billing OS and Meego would have been the same.

Instead Findland got sold some smoke and mirrors from the boys in Redmond. It was Redmond's last attempt to get into the Mobile revolution that was being run by Apple and Google in the West and Nokia in EMEA & APAC... Funny how bad intentions and dishonesty never pan out, even in big boy games.
Which brings up the point, what is wrong with the Finnish government?? It is blatantly obvious what took place, the biggest conflict of interest is just one point of corporate criminal activity here. The list is endless.. If the board is too shocked or scared to take action what about Findlands own government? Here in the US CEO's have done much less and are in Federal prison doing long terms.

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