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« So What Value in Nokia Then? Considering Post Google-Motorola Purchase | Main | WOW! Did not see this coming. HP ends Palm/WebOS based smartphones »

August 17, 2011

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elmo

Timo,

When will you understand.

Microsoft is already controlling Nokia.

The mayor Nokia share holder are the same of Microsoft, both are American Funds with well over 10% ownership in Nokia now.

Yes, Nokia has been acquired for cheap, and could be totally take over even for less.

If properly investigated, there maybe crimes done by Elop and American Funds. But you Finns are too busy on something else then protect your major Finn Company.

Tchuss

e_lm_70

ps: The only hope for a private investor inside Nokia, is to get an acquisition offer from Asia, Huawei and/or ZTE, less likely Samsung (but not totally impossible) ... if somebody make the first step for acquire Nokia, then American Funds will have to make a better offer, else, they lose their nice toy with total incompetent or total criminal Elop as head of Nokia.

pps: I'm wandering how they paid Jorma for keep him silent (he is also a huge private owner of Nokia shares) and still in this criminal game.

Boris

I will add tweet from Eldar Murtazin from the 15th of August:

---
Finally. Nokia could be sold in a few weeks. Price 27billions for the whole company. Microsoft in a hurry but want to pay much less
---

His predictions/insider information are so-so, but for archive ;-)...

antti

The Ninja assassin with a kamikazi complex turned suicide-bomber...
You mean Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles with a kamikaze complex?

Titanium

Tomi,

actually each of your posts are for 90% repetition of previously posts, it's annoying and worst this way you're destroying yor image quicker then Elop with Nokia.

The fact can be easily summarized:

Nokia American stakeholders that are also bigger Microsoft stakeholder had moved to save Microsoft while Nokia European stakeholders are sleeping.

To save Nokia we must simply have to wake up these part of the stakeholders that cares for Nokia and Europe. They have to act now

laplainen

try this:
http://android-press-release.com/

former N900 user

Just won't happen. Elop won't be fired. Microsoft won't buy Nokia (nor anyone else soon). Symbian won't return. Meego won't make a big impact on the smartphone world. You have your different opinion and I respect that. However, looking at your track record about predicting about the success of the Iphone or Android, I am inclined to believe more in my own views about the future of Nokia.

James

Dude, you're ex Nokia. Get over it and move on.

aidan

Happening right now...

Nokia China reveals “(sales) channels collapsed in the second quarter because of the inventory overhang,”

http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2011/08/15/nokia-facing-chinese-pressure-with-symbian-as-windows-phone-launch-looms/

Omar Moya

IMO, Nokia won't be sold. Microsoft wouldn't do that, as it would affect even more HTC and Samsung, their other hopes for making WP7 survive. Also Google won't keep MMI, they will spin it off as soon as deal is closed, and then we will be in business as usual. So, no moves for Nokia or MSFT before first batch of WP7 are in the market.

Malongo

I like that you give Elop the credit he's due, but I would also agree with others that "blame" should be spread around. Whether intentional or not, this greatest management blunder in history isn't just one man's doing.

Shareholders, board members, and all of top management deserve a spot on your blog as well!

me

You should be aware that there is no migration path from WP7 to WP8.

Look up Silverlight / Windows 8 for details.

LeeBase

The N9 is not Meego, it's Maemo. Meego is still not ready. You project ONE QUARTER as if it was a trend. The trend of Nokia after the iPhone and then Android was clear. Down in profits. Down in marketshare.

However, other than things we can never prove (despite your claim of facts) -- you are right that Msft has tied it's future with Nokia -- just as Nokia has tied it's future with Msft. They are ALREADY married.

There is nothing sinister about the N9 not being sold. Nokia gave up on their Symbian to Meego strategy because IT WAS NOT WORKING and IT WOULD NOT ARRIVE IN TIME. The N9 is not the arrival of Meego.
t
If Nokia could make a hit out of a brand new Meego, they can SURELY make a hit out of version 2 (Mango) of WP7. The cost of the licensing of windows has more than been made up in the reduction in cost of supporting Symbian and Meego -- and then add billions of "marketing support" on top of that.

You cannot posit that Msft needs a healthy Nokia (which is true) AND that Msft is working to get Nokia at a bargain, intentionally sabotaging it. Those are OPPOSITE strategies, and both can't be true. As Msft itself NEEDS a healthy Nokia, then it's the former, not the latter which is true.

You are right that Msft won't allow anyone else to buy Nokia. I think that should be obvious to anyone who would even try. So there's not likely to be anyone trying. If Nokia collapses so much that they can't sustain their business....Msft will INVEST in them -- not buy them. Msft doesn't want to own Nokia.

I agree, though, that SHOULD anyone make a play, Msft will step in and win.

All the rest is just your bias in favor of Nokia's previous strategy and you personal dislike of Msft. The Wp7 release 1 was well received, though immature. It is NOT surprising that sales have been bad. It is NOT yet competitive with Android or iOS. Mango MAY change that, or we may need one more round of enhancements.

HOWEVER, Msft has created a great ecosystem to go with Wp7. From the Office tie in, to XBox tie in, to the Zune tie in (content deals already in place) -- to developer support (over 25,000 apps). These are the things Meego won't have for a good long time.

The OS is ready, and Nokia knows how to make phones. 2013 will tell the tale. Certainly not 2011, and most likely not 2012.

Msft is the type of company that can plan that far ahead, and has the resources to hang in there.

Meanwhile Android has ceased being free. Google is just as likely to go down with the purchase of Motorola as they are to make a go of it.

It's still early in the game. Plenty of time left.

Lee

elmo

@LeeBase :
The Elop platfrm burning memo, was a dummy mistake?
The Elop too early announce to shutdown Symbian, 9 months ahead of the first Nokia WM phone is also another dummy mistake ?
What the sense to release a N9 for few market, with Elop the first to say that is a useless temporary phone. Better keep the N9 engineers/managers/etc in vacations at Nokia cost, and do Nothing. This cost less Nokia money.
It is not true that MSFT need Nokia (so far they pay nothing to Nokia, nor they lose any money), MSFT can and will sell WM to everybody that will pay royalties.
It is true now, that Nokia depend on MSFT. Nokia survive depend on how good this WM can be. So far MSFT has a long history in bad failure in the mobile OS arena.

In short ... it is understood that the intention was to drive money from Nokia to Microsoft. It is understood that Nokia mayor share holders are Americans Fonds (2 of them are over 5% each on owning Nokia)
It is clear Elop is a CRIMINAL
It is not clear how Jorma has been paid for stay in Nokia and be silent.

Future will show the tail of this story.

Hopefully, this story will end with Jorma and Elop, and friends in jail

Tchuss

e_lm_70

Earendil Star

Leebase, what are you talking about?

I understand that for a MS fanboi it is hard to accept the reality of the current MS difficulties in the smartphone market, and that Symbian, despite its predicament, is far more popular that WP, but that's the harsh reality. You may accept it or not, but this fact cannot be changed just because you do not like it.

MS is so desperate to promote WP, it covertly took control of Nokia and is now trying to force feed WP to former Nokia customers. MS is a monopolist, adverse to any change or innovation, without any interest in customer satisfaction, unless forced to do so by competition. Just accept it.

Regarding Maemo/Meego, it is pointless to say that Meego is not ready. Harmattan (Maemo + Meego layer) appears to be absolutely mature, and might (please note my conditional) become a success. And who cares if it's not true Meego. But all this is irrelevant, since Harmattan won't stand any chance of being fairly tested in the market, because no one in Nokia is actively supporting it. The N9 will be sold in small quantities and then silently killed. The N950 won't even be sold (developer only device). MS is not interested in promoting Harmattan, so Elop won't do it. Harmattan will be kept (so that no one else may adopt it), and its technology transfered to WP in the hope of making WP a more usable OS.

"If Nokia could make a hit out of a brand new Meego, they can SURELY make a hit out of version 2 (Mango) of WP7". What logic are you applying here? WP has been on the market for ages, and despite the hype nobody buys it. Sad? Yeah, reality is harsh at times. Why should anybody buy Mango then, which is just a WP7 update? Knowing that WP8 will be different and possibly with no transition path from WP7?.
Harmattan is new and looks cool and fresh, and might stand a much better chance, because it is different, it is NOT WP. By the way, this is why it is being killed by its foster parent TH Elop.

You also forget to mention that going Harmattan would be far easier and cheaper and efficient for Nokia because it had been geared for that (Texas Instrument chips) before the arrival of TH Elop. On the contrary, WP obliges Nokia to... outsource phone production (to Compal) while its factories are staying idle!

Yes, MS would prefer not to buy Nokia. It already got what it wanted for free, a leech sucking blood from Nokia's ailing corpse. But do not underestimate the possibility of tactical moves. Others could very well start bidding on Nokia just to increase its price, knowing very well that MS is so desperate it would need to counter any other bid. A bit like what (maybe) Google did with Nortel, bidding (scientific constants) knowing it stood no real chance, just to prop the price up for its competitors.

Yeah, as someone posted, WP is doing much better than Meego... which really means admitting that WP can only outsell OSs that have sold zero... because they are not on the market yet... cold confort, but if it makes you feel better...

LeeBase

@Earendil Star - a product that has not been released cannot be said to be mature.

Nokia came to the decision that Meego would not be ready in time -- that's why everything else has happened.

You and Tomi may disagree, I get that. But the decision was made BASED on Nokia's own interpretation of where things stood.

Thus Nokia went out and made the best deal they could. THAT deal says "windows only" and that's what IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

Whether one is a Msft fanboi or not. Nokia ALREADY married Msft. It is a fait accompli.

I think with Msft there is a CHANCE. The best chance of all the non-Apple, non-Google chances. Which isn't MUCH of a chance, I'll agree.

Lee

peter

tomi,

microsoft can not afford to buy nokia even at current price + 70% premium. that's why it put Elop/Weber in the board of nokia and take the ceo role with $1-2B so-called marketing help fund.

the deal is illegal that's why they keep it secret unless Finnish Court forces them to reveal it.

However all above measures are a mere cover to hide the $160B crime: transfer $160B money from nokia small shareholders/investors to Wall Street criminals.

It is almost done. Just wait, another significant profit warning will be issued by the end of this month by Elop: Nokia is in the past within one month.

peter

after reviewing wp7.1 mango, I can safely say it is still a microsoft trial phone.

how can nokia use it as its only smartphone OS ?

microsft already has no talents left to innovate anything. all talents have already switched to google and apple. thats why Ballmer hired a crap like Elop to run its business software division.

google/apple/nokia all have mature toolkits for developers to produce apps.

microsoft has only beta version for mango. poorly documented, poorly implemented.

I predict microsft will give up wp7/8 soon and reverse back to windows mobile line when ballmer is fired.

peter

the only two buyers of nokia will be Apple and Huawei.

apple can buy out nokia at $36B from it $72B cash pocket.

Huawei can buy nokia at the same price as apple would pay by taking a low interest loan from Chinese banks.

Both will wait till the end of this month when Elop issues another significant profit warning, then both can lower their price tag for nokia to $24B at 100% premium.

Anyway Wall Street would capture $116B profit in cash within 3-4 years.


peter

the only two buyers of nokia will be Apple and Huawei.

apple can buy out nokia at $36B at 70% premium from it $72B cash pocket.

Huawei can buy nokia at the same price as apple would pay by taking a low interest loan from Chinese banks.

Both will wait till the end of this month when Elop issues another significant profit warning, then both can lower their price tag for nokia to $20B at 100% premium.

Anyway Wall Street would capture $116B profit in cash after 3-4 years of bringing down nokia from inside via Jorma Ollila.

peter

@tomi, I like this
"By current trends it won't be until September of this year, that Microsoft finally sells its 5 millionths Windows Phone smartphone and matches the performance of that 'obsolete' Symbian update version. Makes you think, doesn't it?"

actually Nokia N8 is still selling well even in USA. Nokia N8 is almost always within top 10 list of all unlocked phones sold by amazon at a nice price tag $370.

Thats why we have Chris Weber the Elop's ex-microsofot clan, now Nokia head of North America, annouced publicly "nokia won't sell any nokia feature phones/smart phones in North America except WP7.1 mango".

Interesting enough till the end of this year, nokia doesn't have any windows phone ready to sell.

MattU


Serious question: IS NOK contactually committed to WP7? If so any sale and subsequent firing of Elop is irrelevant to Microsoft as Nokia could not abandon their WP strategery without major penalty.

Joke question: Is Tomi contractually obligated to use the words "hot new" in front of "N9" no less than 60% of the time? Is he contractually obligated to mention the "hot new N9" running Meego (which it's technically not) in 90% of his posts?

Nevertheless, Leebase, I take exception to "There is nothing sinister about the N9 not being sold." There may be nothing sinister about it being withheld from certain markets, but neither you nor anyone else has put forth a legitimate reason. While I'm highly annoyed with Tomi's constant shilling for the N9, what reason could there be for not selling as many of them as you can?

At any rate there is a major disconnect between the "Emperor has no clothes" quote from the Nokia Chief Development officer in that Businessweek article that stated there would be no more than 3 Meego phones by 2014, and Tomi's insistence that by merely snapping their fingers Nokia could be mass producing "Meego phones" and be on their way to profitability instantly. I'm sick of hearing the same thing over and over; can anyone resolve this discrepancy? Even if true Meego phones are not on the horizon, couldn't the Maemo/MeeGo/Harmattan software have been used to keep Nokia in the game in the meantime?

Poifan

@peter Are you sure you tried Mango? Its 7.5 NOT 7.1.

peter

@Poifan, yes, mango is version as 7.1.

but in usa, .1 and .5 are equivalent for bath rooms, garages and now microsoft smartphones, haha.

peter

tomi, even symbian^3 nokia n8 is better than mango, why Jorma Oilla is doing this with Elop ?

peter

Elop is trying to justify his decision to go with microsoft:
"If I happened to be someone who was an Android manufacturer or an operator, or anyone with a stake in that environment, I would be picking up my phone and calling certain executives at Google and say 'I see signs of danger ahead,'" Nokia Chief Executive Stephen Elop told a Helsinki seminar.
"The very first reaction I had was very clearly the importance of the third ecosystem and the importance of the partnership that we announced on February 11, it is more clear than ever before,"
----------------------------------------------------------------
however nokia shareholders/investors have no argument with going microsoft or google. but the abandoning of symbian and meego and huge loyal symbian exisitng users.

nokia is not a hardware maker. nokia itself alone is the top ecosystem and growing with n8 and n9.

mango has zero competition power, zero attraction when comparing with android/iphone/n9 side by side. even worse than N8.

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