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May 25, 2009

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tim harrap

Hi Tomi Great blog for Eddie Izzard!
At a slight tangent to your message I twittered yesterday the question, "Many Google Zeitgeist searches trending downwards over 5 yrs. What does that mean?". If you search for big theme's like "England", "Japan" the graph presents a downward movement. Is this evidence of the global communities improved experience with asking search questions i.e. deeper more detailed queries? Is this increasing granularity dissipating the brand identity of core themes?

Roi Perez

It's true that demographics are a not always the full picture. We use them as a handy way of segmenting audiences. Your right that they are proxies because we don't know the actual behaviour. But that doesn't make them futile. It just makes them imperfect.

Paul McEnany

I agree with the gist, for the most part, but I probably wouldn't go so far as to call demographic info worthless. Mostly because behavior is fantastic in capturing existing interest, but equally imperfect when generating new interest. So if you're comparing to direct marketing tactics, I'd probably agree, but not always for brand marketing. I guess it's really about using all of the cues we have, whether that's behavioral or demographic, to make our best guesses.

Tomi Ahonen

Hi Tim, Roi and Paul

Thank you for the comments. I'll respond to each individually

Tim - thanks. And good point, interesting experiment. I would think, that at least part of that trend is an increasing sophistication by users, learning to use more targeted searches maybe?

Roi - good comment and I totally understand what you say. Yes, demograpics are used (obviously, this blog and our themes are so new, that almost no university MBA courses yet teach marketing "beyond demographics" - thus by necessity, what you are reading here on our blog (and in our books) and debating here with me now, you are truly among the first thousands of marketers on the planet to come across this thinking, and it will take a decade for marketing to "grow up" and understand.

So from a factual "today's status" angle, you are totally right, we do that today. What I am arguing is, that using demographics is a COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE tool today. It will actually HURT more than help. It will create completely useless distinctions and worse, it will eliminiate market opportunities for your company and brand (in most cases, in most markets).

Now, there are some specific exceptions where age for example is very important - children's food for example. They have acutal age brackets, this food is for those babies 6 months to 12 months old, etc.

Age is also relevant to matters where there is a legal requirement for restrictions to purchase, such as cigarettes, alcohol, adult entertainment, gambling, credit cards, etc. For these rare exceptions there is a specific cut-off point for a given age. But most of our services and goods that we sell, any demographic data is truly counter-productive.

A 37 year old married man or woman, who is not yet divorced, but is in the process of splitting from the spouce, that person will start to behave like a single young adult. But is far too old for it, to fit the demographic. If you go by married status (wrong) or age (wrong) you get an error in your targeting. Or else, if you count your "youth" segment to go up to age 37, it is that meaningless to again be useless in the targeting we should be doing in marketing.

Demographics were an excellent tool last century when we had nothing better. It is now an outdated tool and should be abandoned (with some obvious exceptions such as baby foods and the legal age of being an adult)

Paul - I hear you and I appreciate it that you see a lot in it. You make a great point that for generating (genuinely) new interest, the existing usage is not available and other methods have to be used. Then I'd say use psychographic info (our profiles based on our preferences, lifestyles etc) but again, to exclude demographics totally from the mix. There is no doubt some statistical correlation for example with younger users being willing to experiment with new products and services more so than older users. A statistical correlation yes. But there are so many young users who are not willing to experiement, and so many older users who are still willing to experiment, that by looking at their psychographic profile, gives a far better measure than their age (or marital status or gender or zip code etc).

Thank you all for writing

Tomi Ahonen :-)

mitzi

Hi Tomi,

Nice blog. Nice post too. Thought provoking. Initially, felt for paul in his comment about not totally disregarding demographics in the mix. In your reply to him you said to use psychographic info BUT TO EXCLUDE DEMOGRAPHICS TOTALLY FROM THE MIX, at first I was thinking that to do so would actually do the opposite of maximizing possible consumers because demographics could also still serve as a guide in terms of identifying where marketers can find these targets (i.e, schools for univertsity students, etc).This however, with the thinking of includeing more than one demographic variable in identifying the target (i.e, a wider range in age, say 19-40 if we talk about the woman who starts acting like a teen again, or breaking it up into two age ranges of 16-25 and 35-40 for example)

But as I start to write this comment, i realize how much more effective it is indeed to paint a more accurate picture of the target and indentifying where we can find them if we do take out the demographic.

Regardless of age, gender and socio economic status, it's more accurate to identify what kind of spender the person is, where he/she usually hangs out and what types of activties are they into. Because identifying a combination of these (even without the demogaphics) will definitely lead you to them.

This is a great post. I'm glad I chanced upon it as I'm about to venture into a big trending & insighting exercise for our ad agency, being the lone planner =(.. This helps me in streamlining the kinds of information I'll be collecting and sifting through for this endeavor.

many thanks! this is great!!!

mitzi

oh, and i have a follow up question/concern/afterthought though. I think what including the demographics contribute in the process of identifying targets is in its being the most easily measureable 'variable' in identifying targets. Of course size of the target is usually important for more sales. Considering on behavior & psychographics alone may not give an accurate size of the segment, which might be a point against identifying a certain behavior based segment to focus on.

Unless there is an existing means of quantifying it other than a big quantitiative clustering study.

so my question is, how can you reconcile the need to identify the size of a segment/target with just considering psychographic/behavioral based segmentation?

Tomi Ahonen

Hi mitzi

And thank you for both comments.

Good stuff, clearly you're thinking about it and I'm so happy our blog has helped a fellow colleague re-examine this world of marketing and segmentation; there might be a different world out there, and even if we don't have it totally right, I hope others will join and help find that new future, ha-ha..

Now, specifically to the second comment. Very very good indeed. Yes, its easy to do ages. Its easy marketing. Its easy segmentation.

Real professional marketing, really understanding your customer base better than your competitors - that is not easy..

I would put it to you, that a good job in re-defining the segments (and yes, explicitly forbidding the use of classic demograpics) would potentially yield far more powerful segments - and best of all - will wreck the abilities of your competitors to respond..

But yes, it takes effort, a lot of work. So, for example. In my marketing segmentation workshops I like to talk of the ten changees that we as humans go through - each of which relates to how we interact with technolgoy in general, and mobile in particular. Each change results potentially a change also in our usage patterns. I'm talking of learning to write (about age 7) or reaching puberty (age 14) or moving out of the home or getting a first child, or retiring etc. (Not everyone goes through all ten, and not always in identical order, and sometimes we can do the same life situation a couple of times - some people get married and divorced many times etc)

So, a couple of those categories include a status of "single". It can be youth single ie moving away from the parents' home or it can be "again-single" ie after break-up of a live-in partner, or divorce etc. We could do a "post-modern" segmentation where one category is singles, another is adult partners (married or living together) and a third is parent with kids (again, ignoring marital status). Each of these three will yield quite dramatically different phone behaviour patterns, very similar within the segment and radically different to the two other groupings.

I don't mean that this is the ideal segmentation. I use this only to point out, that we can have the "singles" category that can very legitimately have 16 year olds who have moved away from home, and 43 year old "again singles" and anything in between, and ignore the age. Obviously if we measure the ages, we'll probably find that the majority of that group is bewteeen 18 and 25 or so, wherever the age is that people start to co-habitate and make babies etc...

Hey, one more thing. Nothing wrong, AFTER you've done your segmentation for competitive advantage, to map it against "classic" models, to help those senior managers who are not up to the latest theories. Nothing wrong with reporting internally an age-based break-down of the service usage.

Only, that the marketing should not be driven by such archaic models, ha-ha

I hope this helped. Thank you for coming back mitzi and let us know how your own thinking evolves in this space. Please also pay attention to Jonathan MacDonald's Every Single One Of Us initiative, and David Cushman's thoughts in this space (as well as our Alan Moore's obviously)

Tomi Ahonen :-)

mitzi

Thanks so much for your response Tomi. Truly appreciate it. I also did consider thinking about segmenting by 'life-stages' because it has definitely evolved over the years, not as clear cut as before. People can now experience and equivalent of 2 lifetimes (like one's life with a new spouse after a divorce could be characterised as a totally new lifetime altogehter -- that's just how I've observed it tho), with the kind of lifestyle one can have now.

Anyways, I am now thinking of how I can go about segmentation beyond demographics to come up with more succinct target descriptors. It's now also a matter of which kind of segmentation will i start with which will be applicable to the range of brands that we handle. Hope I can also get back to you soon with a definite feedback on where this has led me.

I am going through Every Single One Of Us now and finding it very rich in information and insights on brand building. And yes, I will continue to read you, David Cushman & of course Alan Moore ( I just hope I won't get too overwhelmed with the wealth of information & insight :)

may thanks!

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I like what you have said,it is really helpful to me,thanks!

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Excellently written article, if only all bloggers offered the same level of content as you, the internet would be a much better place. Please keep it up!


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    Tomi Ahonen is a bestselling author whose twelve books on mobile have already been referenced in over 100 books by his peers. Rated the most influential expert in mobile by Forbes in December 2011, Tomi speaks regularly at conferences doing about 20 public speakerships annually. With over 250 public speaking engagements, Tomi been seen by a cumulative audience of over 100,000 people on all six inhabited continents. The former Nokia executive has run a consulting practise on digital convergence, interactive media, engagement marketing, high tech and next generation mobile. Tomi is currently based out of Hong Kong but supports Fortune 500 sized companies across the globe. His reference client list includes Axiata, Bank of America, BBC, BNP Paribas, China Mobile, Emap, Ericsson, Google, Hewlett-Packard, HSBC, IBM, Intel, LG, MTS, Nokia, NTT DoCoMo, Ogilvy, Orange, RIM, Sanomamedia, Telenor, TeliaSonera, Three, Tigo, Vodafone, etc. To see his full bio and his books, visit www.tomiahonen.com Tomi Ahonen lectures at Oxford University's short courses on next generation mobile and digital convergence. Follow him on Twitter as @tomiahonen. Tomi also has a Facebook and Linked In page under his own name. He is available for consulting, speaking engagements and as expert witness, please write to tomi (at) tomiahonen (dot) com

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