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February 06, 2008

Comments

A big fan

And that's a fact jack!
Well put.

Bruce

Excellent post. But, where's your RSS Feed?

Alan Moore

Apparently we have one somewhere Bruce

Left had side says "subscribe to this feed?"

Thank you for posting

Alan

12 dogs and a blog

The interconnectivity of the We Media. Gotta love it. Lean stealth. Group dynamics are definitely different. Not sure that I agree with the idea of it being voluntary though. Let's face it, evolution's not voluntary. Reminds me of high school clicks actually. The "currency" of belonging to something in society hasn't changed much. The "alpha dog" is very much alive and well. He or she still eats first. Still demands that the others in the "pack" obey or be banished. And the "pack" still does because to be a part of the group is better than being expelled from the group. You still have the "secondaries" and the "low man on the totem poles". And the "alpha dog" is always aware of a challenge. And I have seen one "pack" go after another and be really successful. Difference here is that the trends come and go so fast. By the time the public is aware. The "alpha dog" is long gone to the next big thing.

Alan Moore

Dear 12 dogs and a blog it is voluntary as in communities people self select to participate. But no evolution id not voluntary but that's evolution not the insight into what drives social networks and communities.

I don't disagree with what you say, but its a metaphor against something that is more complex.

Thanks for posting

Alan

12 dogs and a blog

Allen,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comment. My view of this subject comes from growing up in a family business. A successful family business in a very tough market. Regardless of our perspective on this issue, we are all trying to understand and profit from the information juggernaut. The difference in trying to predict today's market is that the ebb and flow of information is now world wide. A little old lady in Hoboken, with a quickwit and internet access, can influence markets just as easily as Madison Avenue. Sometime even more so. It's just that when she does, her way of doing so will be as old as time. Human nature changes very little. Still pretty much a pack mentality out there. And it is after all human nature that ultimately drives commerce.
Once again I thank you very much for your response to my comment.
It was quite gracious and appreciated. I very much look forward to reading more about this subject here on your website. Should learn quite alot.

Bruce Warila

Alan,

Thanks for helping me find the RSS link on your site (see my last comment).

I read this post three times while stuck on a runway last week. You have inspired me. Check out my translation to the music industry. I hope I did not misinterpret anything you wrote..
https://www.unsprungmedia.com/unsprung-lessons/2008/3/1/communities-dominate-brands.html

Thanks for your thoughts..

-Bruce

Sebastiaan Elsenburg

Excerpt from 'The Record R.I.P':

https://ridinghood.squarespace.com/the-filter/

Marketers now advise artists not to sell product (by which they erroneously mean records, not music) but to 'sell relationship' - and they absurdly advise them to do so over the net. The enthusiasm with which music industry bloggers such as Bruce Warila and Andrew Dubber explore the marketing possibilities of the Internet strikes me as exceedingly naïve. In their haste to champion new technology, they have inadvertently embraced a marketing tool (the Mp3 download) that is incapable of raising any real revenue. Bruce Warila unsurprisingly writes on his blog page: “In my mind the right tool has not hit the market yet.” Really! Alan Moore even goes so far as to state that “Culture is created by the interaction between human beings.” Poor misguided man. Will somebody please tell him that the only thing created by the interaction between human beings is – gossip. Culture is created when an artist interacts with his audience.

The Internet is being credited with forging communities. Alan Moore again: “Human beings have an innate need to connect, communicate and collaborate.” Unfortunately, the Internet is a cultural expression of people’s increased reluctance, fear even, to connect, communicate and collaborate. If they really wanted to connect, they would go out into the street and shake each other by the hand. Bruce Warila is extremely confused on this issue and gives himself away when he calls the connections that people forge on Myspace “fake-friending”. Why he has not the sense to acknowledge that any networking done over the web is fake-networking remains a mystery. Bob Moog put it best when he said: when a musician invites people to gather around him and engage with his music, he is making community. This is the only way I can make sense of the words: 'sell relationship': the artist eye-to-eye with his audience.

Alan Moore

Dear Sebastian - sounds like a bit of an ill-informed rant to me.

:-)

And you contradict yourself - you quote me "Culture is created by the interaction between human beings" you debunk that as an idea and then you say "when a musician invites people to gather around him and engage with his music, he is making community." which is exactly the same thing. You take a rather idealistic view of the "Artist" as separate to the great unwashed US - it was Joseph Beuys that said "we are all artists". And I think that Flickr is a great example of that

You need to read: Manuel Castells, Dancing in the Streets: A History of Collective Joy by Barbara Ehrenreich, Community & Society by Ferdinand Tönnies, Covergence Culture. Where Old and New Media Collide by Henry Jenkins, Culture by Raymond Williams, the Price Waterhouse report on the changing relationship that brands have with consumers through connected conversations, A brief History of the Future - the origins of the Internet by John Naughton

Before you come stamping your foot. Your views on the web are truly naïve

But thanks for posting - you gave me something to get my teeth into

Alan

Sebastiaan Elsenburg

Hi Allen,

You are right, I take an idealistic view of the artist. I do not think we are all artists, nor that every human being has it in him to entertain and enlighten an audience. I concur with Lee Siegel, whose book 'Against The Machine' has as a subtitle: 'Being Human in the Age of the Mob'. Art and art criticsm are pursuits that require a solid grounding. To let the unschooled (unwashed) mob take over the role of cultural gatekeeper as is happening now on the Internet will carry with it far-reaching social consequences. My view is perhaps alarmist, even hysterical, but naive? I think we ought to preserve that qualification for the assertion that there is some great art to be appreciated over at Flickr, agreed?

Sebastiaan.

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 この火災では、駅員がスピーカーによる業務用放送で火災発生を知らせており、交通局は「実害はなかった」としている。ただ、改札外の一部エリアでは火災の発生が伝わっておらず、火災の勢いが強ければ大惨事につながった可能性もある。

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